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Determining boat value in current market Re insurance and other

LBRodders

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Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
1,864
How does one go about determining the value of a boat in today's market. My Formula is an uncommon boat and I had it valued a few years ago. What sort of percentage creep has there been? Should I increase it's valuation for insurance purposes? When I do a universal search on the used boat market for what I have insured it for I get 20 year old boats in the 26-28 foot range and tired 40 year old boats in the 40 foot range and nothing in the sports cruiser 34 foot range. When I look at similar more familiar boats like the Sealine S34 and Sunseekers of that era my boat belongs I'm getting results of boats that appear to be as much as 20% over what I would have expected them to go for. Is that how much the prices have crept up?
Good question Bruce, one we have considered whilst contemplating selling our boat. One made difficult by not many other identical spec'd boats being on the market. Similar boats provide a wet finger in the air so to speak.

'Insurance value' and 'sale/purchase price' whilst linked are certainly 2 different numbers and I suppose it depends on your policy, Particularly if its for an 'equivalent boat' policy.

For sale value, as a starting point I'd go with purchase price + 1/2 the value of non personalised generic improvements, then add on a 'covid fudge factor' - say 20%. IMO, maintenance / servicing / anti foul / anodes etc are a given, little like advertising a car with 4 tyres. The market has definitely peaked, the main business has been done for this season I feel.
But as we all know, an ad price and what someone is willing to hand over are two different things.

Is the 're other' the start of an amanzi 2 boat thread?! :p
 

BruceK

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8 Feb 2015
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Conwy
Is the 're other' the start of an amanzi 2 boat thread?!
It has always been my intention to change boats when the kids come of age and I boot them out the house to fend for themselves. As that stands I have at least another 5 years before that will happen and probably more. I am looking at a trawler or even possibly a motor sailor and a significant step up in size and cost. The thought had occured that now might be a good time to sell and consolidate for a few years before purchasing as the kids are becoming less enthusiastic about boating. However, that bit is unlikely. I was also concerned that if a disaster struck I'd be left significantly short handed as imo the worst thing you can do is under value your boat for insurance purposes. AFAIK insurance doesnt mind if you slightly over value your boat so long as it's reasonable and within market value. I had no problem with them when their surveyor revalued my boat after the refit and effectively doubled it's price. However what I dont want to do is pay 600 for the privilege again if there has been an accepted uplift everyone is working to. Be that 10, 20 or even 30%. My biggest concern is after looking at the market there is no way I could replace my boat for what it's currently insured for in today's market and I dont think insurance would be sympathetic to that come a total loss.
 

LBRodders

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Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
1,864
It has always been my intention to change boats when the kids come of age and I boot them out the house to fend for themselves. As that stands I have at least another 5 years before that will happen and probably more. I am looking at a trawler or even possibly a motor sailor and a significant step up in size and cost. The thought had occured that now might be a good time to sell and consolidate for a few years before purchasing as the kids are becoming less enthusiastic about boating. However, that bit is unlikely. I was also concerned that if a disaster struck I'd be left significantly short handed as imo the worst thing you can do is under value your boat for insurance purposes. AFAIK insurance doesnt mind if you slightly over value your boat so long as it's reasonable and within market value. I had no problem with them when their surveyor revalued my boat after the refit and effectively doubled it's price. However what I dont want to do is pay 600 for the privilege again if there has been an accepted uplift everyone is working to. Be that 10, 20 or even 30%. My biggest concern is after looking at the market there is no way I could replace my boat for what it's currently insured for in today's market and I dont think insurance would be sympathetic to that come a total loss.
Yes, as discussed it is a conundrum. For us atm we don't want to twist and sticking is not ideal because we wouldn't get much use without kids!

Insurance is a bit of a weird one, as the value insured is proportional [mostly] to the sum insured and so what boat it physically is and what it would sell for are all a bit of a sideshow, like you say all within reason. Your question is absolutely reasonable, because the days of looking at the countless viable replacements are gone!
 

Portofino

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10 Apr 2011
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Boat- Western Med
They only accept a proper valuation done by an approved surveyor .Nothing else .
I have had discussions with Amlin s brokers and Zurich , as my boats risen in value without this Covid buying factor .

Otherwise its what you initially paid this is because it’s written down on the invoice .
There is no way round it .
Talk to your broker for confirmation of this ^^^ .

That Zurich clause of “ supply a suitable replacement “ is a double edge sword .
If the replacement price has gone bonkers , and it’s a total loss and they offer what you paid , which buys diddly squat in a hot market …….ask them to find the replacement.

The reason you don’t value it and they use the “ price paid ” is this .
Breeze down to Dover at a gov auction and get a tenner out and return with a rubber dingy .
Invoice says £10 .
Add a bit of gold leaf to the seats.Get a few famous autographs on it . Harry + Meghan :D
Then fill in a on line ins proposal and say it’s now worth £1 million .
Set fire to it in your back garden on 5/11/21 .
Insist they pay out £1M because you and only you think it’s unique value was a million quid . Good luck with that btw .

So in the absence of a qualified valuation they send you a cheque for …….? …….the price you paid .Got it now ?

Oh and get this rouse , say you actually had it professionally valued after 10 months , after the the gold seat + autograph s crap was done .But you insured it for a tenner like a good boy initially when you bought it as per the proposal.
Professional valuation comes in at £100 , so 10 x what you paid .
You think it’s cover / policy is up soon , armed with this nice survey report next time I will flash that across to the broker and inc the cover 10:x to suit .
But it’s nicked the week before the policy is up .
You claim £100 quid as now you have it’s true value .Right ?
Erh - nope!
Insurance say s they are NOT disputing its new value at £100:, but as you only paid to cover £10 value 51 weeks ago they will pay out a proportional amount of 10/100 .
As you did not tell them it’s value rocketed x 10:, and the premium was initially reflecting its £10 quid value .
Had you informed them they would have requested an extra premium uplift to reflect this newfound , professionally surveyed value .

Do they trust , believe owners and punters in a claim scenario ?:unsure:

The very reason they are still going in business , swimming amongst sharks - I think we all know the answer to that one .;)
 

BruceK

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8 Feb 2015
Messages
7,409
Location
Conwy
yes, yes yes. I had my insurer's surveyor value my boat and increased insurance accordingly. We all know you cant make the sums up. (Mine was a project boat btw, insurance new that and it's in the invoice. Included is all the refit works done to her to bring her up to scratch. Not that it's pound for pound but is valued as boat XYZ in v.good condition as opposed to boat xyz cosmetically poor and need engine works)
My question is insured value increase. Many things increase in value all the time. Not just classic cars. Everyday commodities are in flux as is property etc. Surely one can reset to an accepted market value? If my house was insured for what was paid originally, insurance would only pay out 5000 quid. A monumental shortfall from what it's now worth. So I struggle to believe you when you claim they are inflexible. And it should work both ways. I dont insure my car for what I paid for it. I insure it against it's market value. Each year it's less
 

Portofino

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Joined
10 Apr 2011
Messages
9,663
Location
Boat- Western Med
yes, yes yes. I had my insurer's surveyor value my boat and increased insurance accordingly. We all know you cant make the sums up. (Mine was a project boat btw, insurance new that and it's in the invoice. Included is all the refit works done to her to bring her up to scratch. Not that it's pound for pound but is valued as boat XYZ in v.good condition as opposed to boat xyz cosmetically poor and need engine works)
My question is insured value increase. Many things increase in value all the time. Not just classic cars. Everyday commodities are in flux as is property etc. Surely one can reset to an accepted market value? If my house was insured for what was paid originally, insurance would only pay out 5000 quid. A monumental shortfall from what it's now worth. So I struggle to believe you when you claim they are inflexible. And it should work both ways. I dont insure my car for what I paid for it. I insure it against it's market value. Each year it's less
5 th line down in my post “:Talk to your broker for confirmation of this ^^^ .”
 

MartynG

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Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
4,626
Location
Farndon
My biggest concern is after looking at the market there is no way I could replace my boat for what it's currently insured for in today's market and I dont think insurance would be sympathetic to that come a total loss.
Your thinking is correct as you would not receive more than the value stated on your policy under any circumstances .
 

Bigplumbs

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7 Nov 2015
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2,898
Location
UK
I think prices will settle down again next year when many of the new boaters realise the cost and hassle of boat ownership and the sales boards are full again
 

LBRodders

Well-known member
Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
1,864
They only accept a proper valuation done by an approved surveyor .Nothing else .
I have had discussions with Amlin s brokers and Zurich , as my boats risen in value without this Covid buying factor .

Otherwise its what you initially paid this is because it’s written down on the invoice .
There is no way round it .
Talk to your broker for confirmation of this ^^^ .

That Zurich clause of “ supply a suitable replacement “ is a double edge sword .
If the replacement price has gone bonkers , and it’s a total loss and they offer what you paid , which buys diddly squat in a hot market …….ask them to find the replacement.

The reason you don’t value it and they use the “ price paid ” is this .
Breeze down to Dover at a gov auction and get a tenner out and return with a rubber dingy .
Invoice says £10 .
Add a bit of gold leaf to the seats.Get a few famous autographs on it . Harry + Meghan :D
Then fill in a on line ins proposal and say it’s now worth £1 million .
Set fire to it in your back garden on 5/11/21 .
Insist they pay out £1M because you and only you think it’s unique value was a million quid . Good luck with that btw .

So in the absence of a qualified valuation they send you a cheque for …….? …….the price you paid .Got it now ?

Oh and get this rouse , say you actually had it professionally valued after 10 months , after the the gold seat + autograph s crap was done .But you insured it for a tenner like a good boy initially when you bought it as per the proposal.
Professional valuation comes in at £100 , so 10 x what you paid .
You think it’s cover / policy is up soon , armed with this nice survey report next time I will flash that across to the broker and inc the cover 10:x to suit .
But it’s nicked the week before the policy is up .
You claim £100 quid as now you have it’s true value .Right ?
Erh - nope!
Insurance say s they are NOT disputing its new value at £100:, but as you only paid to cover £10 value 51 weeks ago they will pay out a proportional amount of 10/100 .
As you did not tell them it’s value rocketed x 10:, and the premium was initially reflecting its £10 quid value .
Had you informed them they would have requested an extra premium uplift to reflect this newfound , professionally surveyed value .

Do they trust , believe owners and punters in a claim scenario ?:unsure:

The very reason they are still going in business , swimming amongst sharks - I think we all know the answer to that one .;)
They only accept a proper valuation done by an approved surveyor .Nothing else .
I have had discussions with Amlin s brokers and Zurich , as my boats risen in value without this Covid buying factor .

Otherwise its what you initially paid this is because it’s written down on the invoice .
There is no way round it .
Talk to your broker for confirmation of this ^^^ .

That Zurich clause of “ supply a suitable replacement “ is a double edge sword .
If the replacement price has gone bonkers , and it’s a total loss and they offer what you paid , which buys diddly squat in a hot market …….ask them to find the replacement.

The reason you don’t value it and they use the “ price paid ” is this .
Breeze down to Dover at a gov auction and get a tenner out and return with a rubber dingy .
Invoice says £10 .
Add a bit of gold leaf to the seats.Get a few famous autographs on it . Harry + Meghan :D
Then fill in a on line ins proposal and say it’s now worth £1 million .
Set fire to it in your back garden on 5/11/21 .
Insist they pay out £1M because you and only you think it’s unique value was a million quid . Good luck with that btw .

So in the absence of a qualified valuation they send you a cheque for …….? …….the price you paid .Got it now ?

Oh and get this rouse , say you actually had it professionally valued after 10 months , after the the gold seat + autograph s crap was done .But you insured it for a tenner like a good boy initially when you bought it as per the proposal.
Professional valuation comes in at £100 , so 10 x what you paid .
You think it’s cover / policy is up soon , armed with this nice survey report next time I will flash that across to the broker and inc the cover 10:x to suit .
But it’s nicked the week before the policy is up .
You claim £100 quid as now you have it’s true value .Right ?
Erh - nope!
Insurance say s they are NOT disputing its new value at £100:, but as you only paid to cover £10 value 51 weeks ago they will pay out a proportional amount of 10/100 .
As you did not tell them it’s value rocketed x 10:, and the premium was initially reflecting its £10 quid value .
Had you informed them they would have requested an extra premium uplift to reflect this newfound , professionally surveyed value .

Do they trust , believe owners and punters in a claim scenario ?:unsure:

The very reason they are still going in business , swimming amongst sharks - I think we all know the answer to that one .;)
To take into account the covid 'fudge factor' I don't disagree, particularly if you would want more back than your original stake, the invoice as you say.

However, particularly on small [chicken feed money] boats underwriters are more relaxed in their approach for genuine improvements. For example, If you buy a new Mercury 200hp from the main dealer and they fit it on the back of your RIB, an appropriate invoice does the job for an agreeable increase in cover. After all a surveyor in this case adds nothing.
 

MartynG

Well-known member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
4,626
Location
Farndon
I think prices will settle down again next year when many of the new boaters realise the cost and hassle of boat ownership and the sales boards are full again
Or perhaps the year after . Covid is not over and done with yet.

I am not concerned if there is some residual price increase or not but any increase is only a benefit if selling the boat and not buying another boat .
Being boatless is not an attractive thought. Other options like motorhome not really attractive unless we cant handle the boat for some reason associated with old age. Even then I understand motorhome are making robust prices also.
 

Osmosis

New member
Joined
21 Dec 2015
Messages
18
One of the things you must look at is the type of insurance policy you have purchased.

If an "agreed value" policy and the correct valuation supplied then insurers have accepted to insure for that value.
If on the other hand you purchase a "market value" insurance then insurers would only value in the event of a claim the approximate value usually from web site costings.
Motor insurers have a trade guide or a form of Parkers guide and that is what they will pay out, they do not care if Harry and Megan have autographed
If a policy that concludes claims based on the insurers value then again like "market value" you run the risk of lower settlement.

It is all on the tin, agreed value is a contract based on you producing the correct paperwork to insure for x at the time of insuring or increasing values and the insurer accepting that value.

Why pay over the odds if at time of claim under market value you will only get half your money back!
 
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