Catalina36
N/A
My Catalina 36 has a 4 foot draught and a 3 ton wing keel. Its maiden voyage was from Massachusetts to Falmouth, then on to Holland. The delivery crew wrote a very complimentary report on its handling.
Deep vs shallow keel
- Thread starter cmedsailor
- Start date
Just_sayin'
Well-known member
Only Anderson 22's are capable of this feat.
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
johnalison
Well-known member
A friend of ours bought an American boat with the intention of cruising in the Caribbean and sailing it back. He specifically chose a shallow draft on the grounds that it would be safer in bad weather as it would slide down a wave rather than trip over and suffer a knockdown. I was never very convinced by this but maybe there is something in it. In the end he had the boat shipped back.
There are shallow fins and shallow fins. Some are very shallow and the performance is definitely compromised. Mine is 1.5+m vs the standard 1.8 and we compare well when sailing against our sister ships.
There are shallow fins and shallow fins. Some are very shallow and the performance is definitely compromised. Mine is 1.5+m vs the standard 1.8 and we compare well when sailing against our sister ships.
convey
N/A
Especially the Westerly 22 model.
2.25 ft or 0.69m draft (but still about 4,500 foot pounds of righting moment at 90°).
William_H
Well-known member
Just to be pedantic people here speak of a deeper keel with lower CofG as being more stiff. ie it's ability to resist heeling. This is not quite right in that stiffeness mostly comes from the hull shape of the boat and total weight. A lower Cof G ie deep heavy keel only starts to have a significant righting effect once the heel gets to around 45 degrees. Trigonometry will show the precise amount at different angles. So a low Cof G in the keel aids in self righting more than stiffness. A catamaran is very stiff with nor deep ballasted keel but is not so good at self righting. ol'will.
LittleSister
Well-known member
Other advantages of a shallow keel include:
the ability often to anchor closer inshore and in more sheltered areas than deep keels;
the ability to use moorings and pontoons that are too shallow for deep keelers, and therefore tend to be cheaper or more likely available;
less distance to climb (or fall!) when the boat's ashore;
the ability to use channels and inland canals/rivers that would be denied, or at least worrisome to deep-keelers; and
the ability to continue to brew tea when you've gone aground and dried out
.
I've owned two shoal draft (less than a metre!) long-keeled boats, and my experience of the shoal draft-ness of the first didn't put me off getting another. (I did sometimes wish I'd had the manoeuvrability of a fin keel, though!).
I know that I make a bit more leeway than deeper draft vessels (though I suspect the difference tends to be somewhat overstated), but vassal can't remember finding it a significant hindrance or frustration. On the other hand I've often found the shallow draft useful.
All but one of the other boats I've owned also drew less than a metre, but that's mainly because they were such small boats!
I'd encourage anyone else to get the deepest draft possible, so as to increase the availability, and decrease the price, of facilities I can use and they can't.
the ability often to anchor closer inshore and in more sheltered areas than deep keels;
the ability to use moorings and pontoons that are too shallow for deep keelers, and therefore tend to be cheaper or more likely available;
less distance to climb (or fall!) when the boat's ashore;
the ability to use channels and inland canals/rivers that would be denied, or at least worrisome to deep-keelers; and
the ability to continue to brew tea when you've gone aground and dried out
.I've owned two shoal draft (less than a metre!) long-keeled boats, and my experience of the shoal draft-ness of the first didn't put me off getting another. (I did sometimes wish I'd had the manoeuvrability of a fin keel, though!).
I know that I make a bit more leeway than deeper draft vessels (though I suspect the difference tends to be somewhat overstated), but vassal can't remember finding it a significant hindrance or frustration. On the other hand I've often found the shallow draft useful.
All but one of the other boats I've owned also drew less than a metre, but that's mainly because they were such small boats!
I'd encourage anyone else to get the deepest draft possible, so as to increase the availability, and decrease the price, of facilities I can use and they can't.
OliverdelaRosa
New member
Very interesting. What about the shallow keel of a Fairey Fisherman? I'm considering the purchase of one of those.
coopec
N/A
Other advantages of a shallow keel include:
the ability often to anchor closer inshore and in more sheltered areas than deep keels;
the ability to use moorings and pontoons that are too shallow for deep keelers, and therefore tend to be cheaper or more likely available;
less distance to climb (or fall!) when the boat's ashore;
the ability to use channels and inland canals/rivers that would be denied, or at least worrisome to deep-keelers; and
the ability to continue to brew tea when you've gone aground and dried out
You mean I couldn't sail/ motor up the Danube in my yacht drawing 5'3"?
geem
Well-known member
Thats not my experience. Our own boat is 44ft long. She is slack bilge so the hull shape adds nothing to initial stiffness but being 2.2m draft with a lead keel of 6000kg she soon becomes a stiff boat. A good lean on to windward would be 25deg. Being a heavy boat she needs a fair amount of canvas to punch to windward in a seaway. Her deep draft and heavy keel allow us to carry plenty of sail and she will tack to windward in ocean conditions with 20-28kts over the deck at 90deg. Its not comfortable sailing by any stretch of the imagination bit she does it. The deep draft is essential to stop leeway but the heavy weight of the keel low down allows you to have power from the sail plan and therefore the power to drive up wind. We would never be sailing at 45deg. 30deg in a gust would be our maximum angle of heel
convey
N/A
The Danube is a rather large river ... the Grand Union Canal is said to be 5'6", would you want to try it? I mean, it may well be in some places, but you might have a problem with the bikes and shopping trolleys in it.You mean I couldn't sail/ motor up the Danube in my yacht drawing 5'3"?
coopec
N/A
I always thought of the Danube as being a large river. I've looked at photos of large barges(?) and thought it must be deep but apparently it is only 3ft - 26ft and doing a bit of reading many river passenger boats go aground and passengers have to be bussed.
I've looked at charts of the river (they are down loadable)
16.CALAFAT - Danube water levels in the last 60 days (Just selected at random)
Danube Cycle Path
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Easticks28
Well-known member
In Chapter 2 we will discuss long keels vs fin keels.
convey
N/A
I suppose it's a question of where, it is 1,770 miles long, and that it depends on the rain in the mountains.
Certainly on my bucket list to do via the German canals (?) but my problem would be more of fighting my way up against some of the currents. I've read small boats often require tows.
coopec
N/A
As far as Blue Water Yachts are concerned are full keel yachts are the way to go or fin keels? I wonder what the experts would have to say?
My yacht has a relatively shallow keel so perhaps I could navigate the Danube?
The Danube is navigable by ocean ships from the Black Sea to Brăila in Romania (the maritime river sector), and further on by river ships to Kelheim, Bavaria, Germany; smaller craft can navigate further upstream to Ulm, Württemberg, Germany. About 60 of its tributaries are also navigable.
Cities: Ulm, Ingolstadt, Regensburg, Linz, Vien...
Country: Germany, Austria, Slovakia, Hungary, ...
Mouth: Danube Delta
Danube - Wikipedia
convey
N/A
We're kind of changing topic here, but has anyone done the northern section to the North Sea/Channel? I understand there's a choice of routes and, as above, a problem with the strength of the stream in some.
coopec
N/A
Joshua Slocum's yacht Spray was shallow draft. (This would have to be a replica as the original was lost at sea?)
Sailing Alone Around the World - Wikipedia
38' SPRAY - Making An Icon Suitable for Voyaging
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CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-known member
Fairey Fisherman is primarily a motor boat than sailing boat
Laminar Flow
Well-known member
The old plank on edge English type of yacht was wholly ballast stable. It is a long way from this to a late seventies or early eighties Van de Stadt.
I sailed a 1960 Robert Clark some 8000 miles across the Pacific and back. It displaced 16t on a length of 43' with a beam of 11' (3.3m), Draft 6'6" and with a deep wine glass section. It did indeed sail at angles of 45 deg. and more to weather.
The newer (1978-84) 44' Van de Stadts would have a beam of between 4.10m and 4,70m. That makes a significant difference as far as form stability goes, no matter if the the boat has a slacker bilge than the current crop. Overall stability is more than anyone single factor but at small angles of heel, form stability and beam are the most significant. For this reason in particular beam has been on the increase since the 1930s. To day, with ever lighter builds and relatively lower ballast ratios it has become the most important single stability factor. Beam, a high ballast ratio and consequently a low CG makes for an even stiffer boat yet.
Slack bilges arguably add (capsizing) displacement/buoyancy low down, but they also make for a sea-kindlier hull and, as Geem pointed out, a place for tanks and storage that is closer to the CG which makes up for some of it's disadvantages.
peter gibbs
Active member
In practical terms most of us work to 2m depths when close in. Knocking 20-40 cms off this with a shallower keel to enable ditch crawling with greater confidence is actually immaterial. Same argument with bilges, which I sailed for years before going fin.
But having a good fin not compromised on depth is a force for stability and pointing that cannot be denied, and one that trumps the occasional mini benefit of creeping over some shallow bar with greater confidence.
PWG