Sixpence
Active member
I'm not even going to enter that discussion
Death of a fine vessel?
- Thread starter milltech
- Start date
Superflid
New member
The idea of moving her to a more central location would work for me. As much as I'd like to, there's no way I could travel to her current location for a weekend's work.
I have to do a 140 mile round trip to Tommy, that's about as far as I'd like to be doing.
I have to do a 140 mile round trip to Tommy, that's about as far as I'd like to be doing.
oldgit
Well-known member
Wonder if lead ballast or if prop is Bronze?
The long run down hill would have started 10/15 years ago,when stuff started to need doing.It is what is lurking within that would scare me.Can just imagine what it would cost to buy and mould a dozen hardwood ribs or whatever due to those iron fastenings having corroded over the years.The other big problem would be finding any yard prepared to consider multiple owner restoration. project.
Round here, as suspect elsewhere,no chance.
Yards are realising the value of renting space to presentable liveaboards and are gradually squeezing out the old wrecks.
Barge sank week or so ago under suspious"circumstances when it
"broke free" from its mooring in residential yard.Everyone loudly stating it was nothing to do with them guv poss due to 50k bill floating around for recovering from bottom of river by authorities. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
The long run down hill would have started 10/15 years ago,when stuff started to need doing.It is what is lurking within that would scare me.Can just imagine what it would cost to buy and mould a dozen hardwood ribs or whatever due to those iron fastenings having corroded over the years.The other big problem would be finding any yard prepared to consider multiple owner restoration. project.
Round here, as suspect elsewhere,no chance.
Yards are realising the value of renting space to presentable liveaboards and are gradually squeezing out the old wrecks.
Barge sank week or so ago under suspious"circumstances when it
"broke free" from its mooring in residential yard.Everyone loudly stating it was nothing to do with them guv poss due to 50k bill floating around for recovering from bottom of river by authorities. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
milltech
Active member
I have a kind of general view that if you want something you put your hand in your own pocket and get on with it. There have, from time to time, been attempts to raise money, maybe even successfully, to refit old boats of character, they always look to me like a case of "my boating and have someone else pay".
I don't think even the most committed group would want to take on a family cruiser and expect a group to come along and spend their weekends at it. This is a case of someone saying, "yeah I'd like that boat and I could rebuild her just as I'd like".
To give you some kind of benchmark, you'd end up with a boat not too dissimilar in style and function to "Englander", maybe not quite so pretty because of the Spey style deckhouse. Mackenzie built this boat just as Jones next door was building Speys and I expect he was influenced by the cabin line, (or perhaps was t'other way).
I don't think even the most committed group would want to take on a family cruiser and expect a group to come along and spend their weekends at it. This is a case of someone saying, "yeah I'd like that boat and I could rebuild her just as I'd like".
To give you some kind of benchmark, you'd end up with a boat not too dissimilar in style and function to "Englander", maybe not quite so pretty because of the Spey style deckhouse. Mackenzie built this boat just as Jones next door was building Speys and I expect he was influenced by the cabin line, (or perhaps was t'other way).
Sixpence
Active member
As the interest in a forum project seems to have vanished it seems you may be right , but if the interest picked up I'd be happy to donate time on the same basis as Tommyrot , I couldn't travel all that way for a weekends work , but would be happy to help if the target was to move her to a more central location
SteveE
New member
Debate done (to death) Yes, or No? Vote?
Sixpence
Active member
for what it's worth , I've got a couple of people that would be interested in helping but it takes a lot more to save a boat like this . I'm willing to kick in and help but if nobody else is , she's gone . All too often it happens
oldgit
Well-known member
Re: fine vessel?
Sure the forum could get this up a running in a long weekend. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sure the forum could get this up a running in a long weekend. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
milltech
Active member
Re: IF one was rebuilding....
Of course, if you were biting this bullet and rebuilding I think the thing to do would be to chop off the deckhouse lock stock and barrel and move the wheelhouse forward, leaving a nice big saloon aft opening to the after deck, and full height in the engine room, like the later H&M's.
My original love-affair, the beautiful 1962 Arvor III seen on the Caledonian sometime before 1988.
My 1974 Herd and Mackenzie on the Caledonian about 1990.
Of course, if you were biting this bullet and rebuilding I think the thing to do would be to chop off the deckhouse lock stock and barrel and move the wheelhouse forward, leaving a nice big saloon aft opening to the after deck, and full height in the engine room, like the later H&M's.
My original love-affair, the beautiful 1962 Arvor III seen on the Caledonian sometime before 1988.
My 1974 Herd and Mackenzie on the Caledonian about 1990.
burgundyben
Well-known member
Re: fine vessel?
Is that the Medway Queen? I how long ago was the pic snapped? I thort they had lottery funding now?
Is that the Medway Queen? I how long ago was the pic snapped? I thort they had lottery funding now?
Canboria
New member
Re: fine vessel?
[ QUOTE ]
Is that the Medway Queen? I how long ago was the pic snapped? I thort they had lottery funding now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not the Medway Queen but the John H Amos
The JOHN H AMOS was the last paddle tug built in Great Britain for civilian owners, and is the last survivor. She was built in 1931 for the River Tees Commissioners. However the builders were declared bankrupt before completion. The Liquidators finished the job to a higher specification by using available materials that were in the yard. It was soon discovered that boilers they used could not supply enough steam for the large diagonal compound engines. A maximum speed of only 11 knots was achieved instead of the intended 13 knots. Among other modifications that were made an extra steam container was added to each boiler. She had a certificate for 130 passengers. In the late 1960s, when the vessel was retired from use with the Commission, Stockton Council assumed responsibility for her, but after the local government reorganisation of 1974 the new council did not wish to continue with this. The Medway Maritime Museum heard of her impending fate and negotiated to buy the vessel. With due civic ceremony and much attention from the media, the JOHN H AMOS was towed by the steam tug CERVIA to Chatham.
See the attached link to what is happening to the tug now
http://www.johnhamos.org/
[ QUOTE ]
Is that the Medway Queen? I how long ago was the pic snapped? I thort they had lottery funding now?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not the Medway Queen but the John H Amos
The JOHN H AMOS was the last paddle tug built in Great Britain for civilian owners, and is the last survivor. She was built in 1931 for the River Tees Commissioners. However the builders were declared bankrupt before completion. The Liquidators finished the job to a higher specification by using available materials that were in the yard. It was soon discovered that boilers they used could not supply enough steam for the large diagonal compound engines. A maximum speed of only 11 knots was achieved instead of the intended 13 knots. Among other modifications that were made an extra steam container was added to each boiler. She had a certificate for 130 passengers. In the late 1960s, when the vessel was retired from use with the Commission, Stockton Council assumed responsibility for her, but after the local government reorganisation of 1974 the new council did not wish to continue with this. The Medway Maritime Museum heard of her impending fate and negotiated to buy the vessel. With due civic ceremony and much attention from the media, the JOHN H AMOS was towed by the steam tug CERVIA to Chatham.
See the attached link to what is happening to the tug now
http://www.johnhamos.org/
burgundyben
Well-known member
Re: fine vessel?
there does not seem to be an update since august, did they get her lifted onto the barge?
there does not seem to be an update since august, did they get her lifted onto the barge?
Canboria
New member
Re: fine vessel?
[ QUOTE ]
there does not seem to be an update since august, did they get her lifted onto the barge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure if they lifted it or not, as live on the Island by the dockyard I will have a look tomorrow, in saying that Oldgit probably knows as he prowls the Medway on a regular basis, when he surfaces later he will more than likely know.
[ QUOTE ]
there does not seem to be an update since august, did they get her lifted onto the barge?
[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure if they lifted it or not, as live on the Island by the dockyard I will have a look tomorrow, in saying that Oldgit probably knows as he prowls the Medway on a regular basis, when he surfaces later he will more than likely know.
oldgit
Well-known member
Re: fine vessel?
Err no the poor olde thing is still in situ.There was an attempt recently to get her moved into the middle of that slip in order to get some slings under her,but she leaks a tad /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and tarps and wooden patches/pumps proved inadequate to get enough water out to shift her.
Tale doing the rounds that she had a twin which having been loaded up to the gunnals with coal set sail via the Canaries and with her wealthy owner to the States and now lives a quiet but dignified life in California.
Err no the poor olde thing is still in situ.There was an attempt recently to get her moved into the middle of that slip in order to get some slings under her,but she leaks a tad /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and tarps and wooden patches/pumps proved inadequate to get enough water out to shift her.
Tale doing the rounds that she had a twin which having been loaded up to the gunnals with coal set sail via the Canaries and with her wealthy owner to the States and now lives a quiet but dignified life in California.
milltech
Active member
[ QUOTE ]
It really would never fetch anything like that kind of money, nor would be worth it .... for 3-5k you get a nice dry boat that you can use straight away.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been re-reading these posts and, for the record, I agree she's worth nothing. In any sensible world the owner would pay to have her removed. I think what I was trying to say was that if anyone wanted to spend £100k to £150k on a rebuild, then finding an accord with the owner for a few grand would not matter much in the great scheme of expenditure to follow, and so if that's what it took to get a deal it would be OK.
It really would never fetch anything like that kind of money, nor would be worth it .... for 3-5k you get a nice dry boat that you can use straight away.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've been re-reading these posts and, for the record, I agree she's worth nothing. In any sensible world the owner would pay to have her removed. I think what I was trying to say was that if anyone wanted to spend £100k to £150k on a rebuild, then finding an accord with the owner for a few grand would not matter much in the great scheme of expenditure to follow, and so if that's what it took to get a deal it would be OK.
unh
New member
I placed an offer on Andvari in 1998 but was unfortunately outbid. She was in excellent condition then and had just recently had two brand new 135hp Perkins engines fitted. I had a preliminary survey carried out on the vessel and all seemed good. The interior was superb and very little work was needed to bring her up to top condition. I did some reseach on the boat before placing my offer and found out some interesting information - She was built for Mr McKenzie himself and the original yard number was 184. Herd and Mckenzie were still in existance as of 1998 but trading as 'Buckie Shipyard Ltd'. According to my research, this boat was built to the highest specifications. I agree that it is a shame about the boat's current condition and it would be nice if she could be saved. When I was planning to buy her, she was part one registered. It may be worth checking to see if the current owner continued with the registration. If any one does buy her, I would be willing to have a chat and let you know what I know about the boat.
Roger
Roger
ccscott49
Active member
Theres another Herd and Mackenzie, in Pollensa, Mallorca, "Andrea Ferera" I think the name is, a big one, needs a lot of TLC and money, I looked at her some 13 years ago, before I bought Englander, she was nice then, gone rapidly downhill since, pity.
martinraggett
New member
Had a half decent look round it today and took a few photos with my phone whilst there!
[2068]
...
Holy thread resurrection, I think this might be a record!
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
I walked past it a few weeks back, looks a complete mess. Our bus driver said owner was still wanting £10K, surely only good for a bonfire.
