Dare I ask about coppercoat???

[Neeves]

This is the 21st Century and marine version of the story of 'who is going to bell the cat?" If CC, or Silic One, works then you do not need to slip - so how does everyone change their anodes. I appreciate individuals might dive to replace anodes - but that is not for everyone, for a v variety of reasons. And for those who do replace their own anodes - how many have you dropped and lost . How do you keep your water in takes clear and for those with sail drives - what do you treat them with.

None of this is a problem for us, as we have a cat, we can dry out as often as we like - I'm just wondering how the other half live (and survive).


If this sounds very anti CC.

I would have our cat treated with CC tomorrow - were it not for the cost of soda blasting and any remedial repairs. I have seen sufficient CC coated yachts, including the Clipper fleet and other cats to consider it a success. But we can dry out tomorrow on a local beach at no cost and replace anodes and AF the sail drives (without contaminating the seabed (drop sheets) and do all this between tides. The water is sufficiently warm we could swim and clean hulls of slime and as we can cruise at an average of 10 knots - we have speed on our side.

Jonathan

 

[Tranona]

You are right about the need to replace anodes - but this does not apply to every boat - and if you have a lift and a wash (rather than a haulout to antifoul) you can do this while the boat is in slings. Actually the anode on my saildrive seems to last at least 5 years and the little button that is used as a ground more than that.

The 3 potential benefits of Coppercoat are less fouling, no need for annual attention other than wash and long life (10+ years). Not all of these are relevant to every individual situation and the value of each varies. So each individual has to determine for themselves whether the benefits for theem justify the cost.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

So each individual has to determine for themselves whether the benefits for them justify the cost.

I too would like CC, but the upfront costs and boat ownership length would probably not
apply to myself.

As an aside, I recently witnessed a boat running it's engine in a marina berth. He
applied Silic 1 last summer and you could visually see the vegetation coming off the hull
due to the wash. Quite impressive. As mentioned above, I would still like to see a lot more feedback before giving it a go.

 

[Laser310]

is anyone using this on race boats?

how well does it burnish?

 

[PeterBoater]

Coppercoat did not work for me. It was properly applied and has remained firmly in place for 5 years and has been abraded every year to a greater of lesser degree. However, the effectiveness has always been far worse than the previous conventional antifoul.

Richard

"and has been abraded every year". Perhaps that's where you were going wrong; see post #16

 

[iantomlinson]

Wash it and leave it. Abraided every year means youve probably sanded it all off.

 

[Sandy]

Have Coppercoat on my motor boat.
It has no fouling on it at all.
Mind you it is under several coats of conventional A/F .

I'd really like to hear what antifoul you used and the frequency of application that you use to keep your hull clear of all fouling?

 

[RichardS]

"and has been abraded every year". Perhaps that's where you were going wrong; see post #16

Wash it and leave it. Abraided every year means youve probably sanded it all off.

Until I started abrading it, as specifically advised by Coppercoat/AMC, it would not work at all. I contacted AMC and sent photos after every year's haul out and the first time they advised abrading the entire surface with scotchbrite pads but that made no difference so they then advised abrading using a machine sander and 100 grit abrasive. I had to pay £500 for that and the result was that half the copper was sanded away which, bearing in mind the original price, effectively cost me another £2000.

This was after the second year of abrading with the coarsest scotchbrite. The photo was taken 12 months after the abrading ..... which itself takes several days as there is a lot of hull!

I've not had the chance to haul out since I lost half the copper but it still doesn't appear to be working and AMC have not offered any refund. I would have thought that they might send a technician down to try and work out what the hell is going on but, once they have your money, I don't think they are very interested.

Richard

 

[JumbleDuck]

This is the 21st Century and marine version of the story of 'who is going to bell the cat?" If CC, or Silic One, works then you do not need to slip - so how does everyone change their anodes.

The anode I fitted in 2010 (I think, may have been 2009) is only about 1/4 gone. Changing it is not a major preoccupation ...

 

[Tranona]

The anode I fitted in 2010 (I think, may have been 2009) is only about 1/4 gone. Changing it is not a major preoccupation ...

But it is for the many people who have "invested" another big chunk of money in a folding, feathering or self pitching prop (not all makes) which can eat anodes in short order potentially resulting in the prop eroding away!

 

[JohnGC]

The anode I fitted in 2010 (I think, may have been 2009) is only about 1/4 gone. Changing it is not a major preoccupation ...

Are you judging this by overall size?

When I changed our saildrive anode after 18months, it looked almost untouched. But by weight it had lost more than a 3rd of its mass. What appeared to be superficial surface pitting was in fact quite deep. The effect was rather like woodworm.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But it is for the many people who have "invested" another big chunk of money in a folding, feathering or self pitching prop (not all makes) which can eat anodes in short order potentially resulting in the prop eroding away!

Ignorant question: Can't they be protected by a nice big anode on the hull? Or is the water path too long?

 

[LONG_KEELER]

is anyone using this on race boats?

how well does it burnish?

Personally I don't know but this is one of the Silic One inferences that it is very slippery already without the need to burnish.

Have you felt the hull of a boat with Silic One out of the water ?

Before wetting the hull it feels almost a bit tacky . Apply some water to the surface and it is incredibly slippery.

It would be nice if one of the mags ran an ongoing test where the effectiveness could be monitored regularly.

 

[Tranona]

Ignorant question: Can't they be protected by a nice big anode on the hull? Or is the water path too long?

No, they part of the prop so spin. With a shaft drive it is possible that a hull anode, bonded through the shaft might give some protection, but of course once you get an anode on the prop hub itself this erodes first. The problem is more acute on saildrives because the prop is isolated from the drive so not possible to bond it to a hull anode. Often the anodes are small because the space to fit them is restricted and they need to be bolted to the bit of bronze they are protecting, so often erode around the screw holes and fall off before fully wasted.

Luckily my FlexoFold does not need an anode and the saildrive is the type that has the large mass one - two factors supporting the strategy of just lift and wash at a modest £75 a go.

 

[Neeves]

Mags are unlikely to give it a go - simply too expensive. You would need to strip the hull back, soda blast. The application is not easy and the instructions need to be followed perfectly. If you see commercial vessels being coated the operators were full HazMat suits and respirators. If it is not effective, or not deemed effective it is very difficult to remove all the silicone and if you do not remove the silicone - nothing else will stick to it. Silicone coatings are easily damages, by lifting in slings or by touching something in the water - once the silicone coating is damaged you are on the slippery slope as removal of fouling that will occur at the damaged area - simply increases the size of the damage. Repairs are very difficult.

Some of the silicone coatings are feared to be carcinogenic and speciality protecting is needed when stripping back (which includes stripping back PropSpeed).

Many commercial vessels have been coated with silicone coatings - and some have reverted to conventional AF. For example Maersk now use one of the Jotun Sea Quantum products (a family of 4 - for different boat speeds).

Silicone coatings have now been around for a significant period of time - if they were trouble free - we would all be using them. Most of the AF companies have a silicone product and have trialed them in 'real life' - they are hardly enthusiastic at trying to persuade us to swap - which is a message in itself.


For anode life - we get from 1-2 years on the segmented anodes attached to the props. For the large anode we get similar but sometimes a bit more - what usually happens is preferential loss at the fixing holes making the anode useless - lots of zinc left but an inability to attach electrically. Not a problem for us but it would be a major issue for a keeled yacht as they cannot easily dry out and then if you are slipping anyway and the CC of questionable performance - you might consider that AF is a better option.


My conclusion is that if you are buying a new yacht it is then worth the risk in having CC applied. Like AFs it may work in your environment and the extra costs you incur are slightly offset as you have another coat of resin on your hull. You can apply a conventional AF over the top. Having CC applied later introduces a large remedial cost, soda blasting, and a danger the application will not be conducted professionally. To add insult to injury - the CC may not work for you anyway.

Jonathan

 

[Frayed Knot]

Until I started abrading it, as specifically advised by Coppercoat/AMC, it would not work at all. I contacted AMC and sent photos after every year's haul out and the first time they advised abrading the entire surface with scotchbrite pads but that made no difference so they then advised abrading using a machine sander and 100 grit abrasive. I had to pay £500 for that and the result was that half the copper was sanded away which, bearing in mind the original price, effectively cost me another £2000.

This was after the second year of abrading with the coarsest scotchbrite. The photo was taken 12 months after the abrading ..... which itself takes several days as there is a lot of hull!

I've not had the chance to haul out since I lost half the copper but it still doesn't appear to be working and AMC have not offered any refund. I would have thought that they might send a technician down to try and work out what the hell is going on but, once they have your money, I don't think they are very interested.

Richard

Your experience sounds very similar to mine with two different boats. The first “professionally“ applied, very badly & subsequently (very reluctantly) recoated by a well known Suffolk yacht harbour. The next self-applied, so I’m confident it was done correctly.
Constant heavy weed growth here + severe barnacle fouling in the Baltic - these remained small & were fairly easy to remove when lifted out. Absolutely no response from the supplier/manufacturer. After four seasons I antifouled over the stuff. Never again.

 

[mrming]

I also found Coppercoat didn’t work in my area (East coast, brackish river). Mine was professionally applied, indoors, to a race boat with a very fair hull. We scrubbed every 4-6 weeks anyway so it wasn’t a big problem. The Coppercoat was still firmly attached when I sold the boat 7 years later.

I understand it works in a lot of areas, so my advice would be to ask / look at other boats in your mooring area and see what’s working (if anything) for them. If Coppercoat does work it’s very convenient.

 

[Daydream believer]

is anyone using this on race boats?

how well does it burnish?

My squib is coated with coppertec. The other squibs that were in the fleet with professionally applied coppercoat needed to be lifted and jetwashed every 3-4 weeks. My boat with coppertec was marginally better at 4 weeks. All left on moorings near each other. I went for coppertec as less needed & cheaper. i was not impressed with the west system on my stella or coppercoat on my hanse . I do not know why it is marginally better. Perhaps being a smaller craft it was easier to do a better job. In any event i would use again but i am told that they are no longer trading but have not checked

 

[Daydream believer]

[QUOTE="Tranona, post: 7680538, member: 287The problem is more acute on saildrives because the prop is isolated from the drive so not possible to bond it to a hull anode. [/QUOTE]
Unless one has an ambassador rope cutter. In my case it jumps the isolation & anodes last 3 months. But as i have to have the coppercoat jetwashed so often i do get to do 2 jobs at once

 

[Kelpie]

Slight thread drift- I'm seeing people talking about having to pay to get lifted for anode changes and scrubbing down their CC.
Am I just incredibly lucky to live in a part of the world with free harbour walls and a suitable tidal range?