Crew member wanted for 20th May

gjbentley

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Looking for a single male or female (under 30 years – non-smoker) with at least RYA Competent Crew to join us onboard our yacht Grand Slam (35 ft yacht) for the 20th, 21st & 22nd May. You will need to be in Port Solent to join us on Friday night 19th May, no later than 9pm. We need a “younger adult” to keep our son, Simon (29 yrs) company as he joins us for the first time onboard. As his parents we recognise we are boring.

Passage plan is to make our way to Yarmouth IOW on Saturday, then on Sunday make our way up Southampton Water to a suitable pontoon for the night, then on Monday make our way back to Port Solent.

Cost £ 30 for the weekend, plus booze/food money in the pub on Saturday night.

See our website: www.grandslam.me.uk Please Email to express interest.
 
G

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Not offering for 19 - 21 ..... sorry - have own boat etc.

You know about the May do the following weekend at Yarmouth ? Beach BBQ etc. ??
 

Oen

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Blimey - all this for only £30!

Come on my boat for the same weekend, plenty of sailing, loads of fun, and FREE just as it always is to my crew!

Why so many folks charging their crew???
 

gjbentley

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Have had a PM. Crew found !

We charge to cover shared expenses for marina fees, food, booze onboard and fuel. The alternative is to keep receipts then divide by the number of crew onboard. This is tedious so we charge a flat rate for a weekend away.

Cheaper that what Sunsail charge - £ 250 per crew member per weekend. And you will not have to share a cabin !

We are not rich enough to cover all crew expenses ourselves. But if somebody would like to make a charitable donation so that we can offer crew places free............ I am more than happy to have a chat.

Have sailed as crew on over 20 vessels in the last 6 years and only one has not requested payment for shared expenses. He was rich.
 

Oen

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Hmmm, I look on this completely differently. Running the boat is my pleasure, and it's easier done with crew. The expenses involved are mine too. My crew are welcome on board, encouraged to participate fully in everything except actually parking the thing, and I see the cost as being down to me. I've also sailed quite a bit on other peoples' boats and have never paid anything to be there...

Perhaps it's a Solent thing?
 

gjbentley

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I would welcome comments from other forum members here to enlighten our friend Oen on what is normal and what is not when charging crew for weekend sail, when they are strangers.

Are we all sufficiently cash rich to offer a no fee ?
 

BrendanS

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It varies from scenario to scenario. I would like to offer something somtimes, often it's refused, sometimes accepted. There is no set rule. If you go out on a 80m motorboat in the Med at his invitation, I'd expect the host is not expecting a contribution towards fuel and food. If on a 23 foot sailing boat on a swinging mooring in the middle of nowhere, I'd be thinking towards paying my way.

Lots of white black and grey in the middle. I don't know the rules either. Taking a few bottles of wine or a good scotch seems to work in some scenarios, but really doesn't recompense for a weekend at sea with meals and berthing costs, but if the host refuses all payment, it's difficult.

If the host asks for reasonable costs to be shared, it seems to take away a lot of the confusion, and I'd welcome that.
 
G

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Costs and who pays ...

I have a simple system ....

Let's take this coming week ... I have a guy who offered to crew ...

I let him know what I will put on board. If he needs anything else - he's welcome to add to it ... drinks / food etc.
Berthing fees are normally not mentioned as I pay those, if he wants to donate towards it ... ok no problem.
Eating / drinking ashore ... normally each pays own way ... often "crew" feel obliged to compensate for fees etc. paid ... ok but I do often refuse.
BBQ's and other things - I do expect each to sort ......

It's really a friendly system with no set who pays what. As the owner - I would be paying fees anyway .. so that is accepted. Rest is open to whoever feels they want to ...

I think once you start quoting "price" ... you get reactions like we see here on this thread .. a sort of anti-commercial reaction. I haven't found anyone yet that doesn't pay their way on board ... in fact I have had the opposite where I've had trouble getting others to stop paying all.

It is really a fun thing after all.
 

Koeketiene

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From earlier postings I gather you would have sailed with family, but they have other commitments.

1. Food: would you have charged your family members for food? Expect not - so why ask crew to fork out for this? You would need to feed whatever crew anyway.

2. Petrol: had you sailed with family you would have spent the money/fuel anyway. Again, why charge crew?

3 Marina charges: same argument as for petrol.

Whenever I have crewed/delivered in the past I have expected nothing more than being fed (and in case of a delivery travel costs paid).

As I see it, crew provides their labour (which you seem to require) free of charge, in exchange you feed them free of charge.
Comparing your transaction to Sunsail makes no sense at all.

Like Oen said - it must be a Solent thing.
 

gjbentley

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Re: Costs and who pays ...

I agree it really is a fun thing, with no set rules, so if people are prepared to pay, then why not ?

The worst Skipper for wanting compensation I have come across was when she paid for nothing, and the crew had to spilit the overall costs between them, including restaurant meals - and she was a Little Ship Club member !

But £ 30 for three days fully inclusive bed and board is hardly "commercial", and for many what they would pay anyway for socialising over a weekend. I will be incurring over £ 60 in marina fees, offering two evening meals with a roast joint of meat and wine, plus lunch and full English breakfast each day.

More important to me is whether the experience is sufficiently positive for a crew member to want another sailing cruise with me. Such requests can only be considered if I can afford to make such an offer.

However when breakages/loss occurs onboard by crew, (eg lost fender), I never ask for compensation.
 
G

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Maybe I wasn\'t too clear ...

I don't ask others as crew to "pay" ... I only mention that as each has particular tastes etc. in food / drink - they look after themselves on that score. If they want to contribute to other costs - that is their choice.

I don't subscribe to the "well you would have spent it on family" .... you ask crew to give for free ...... etc. That is single minded nonsense ... sorry but my opinion.
Crew ..... I do so hate that word in this sense .... cause they are really "new-friends" or other boaters ... Crew gives the impression of Ship / Commercial / Racing etc.
But "crew" get to be on a boat that they don't maintain ... have no obligation.

BOTH sides benefit from the experience ... owner gets hand to sail the boat, hand get's to sail on different boat gaining experience.

Surely a fair divide is acceptable - without setting rules and flat fee's etc.
 

gjbentley

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[ QUOTE ]
"From earlier postings I gather you would have sailed with family, but they have other commitments."

[/ QUOTE ]

Regret your post is full of assumptions. Next weekend will be the first time we have sailed with a family member. Usually have about a half a dozen non family regulars, who since passing their RYA DS, have failed to sufficiently network themselves into the sailing world to build up their experience.

If you were keen to get more sailing miles and experience, but lacked anyone who could offer you a place onboard their yacht, you would definitely compare my offer to what your only other option would be - ie a commercial offer, like Sunsail.

As for this "Solent thing" you must be pretty conceited, (almost laughably), to think only Solent Skippers charge their crew.

No I would not of had to cover the costs anyway if I did not have crew on board, (another assumption). I simply would not be able to afford a long weekend sailing cruise every three weeks during the season.

I think this forum is becoming too judgemental for it to serve any purpose in recruiting crew. Made to feel like scrooge, and discriminated against by the locality in which I sail !

But at least I have my crew member for next weekend, and I will be £ 30 quid better off. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
G

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The Forum is still young ...

Give it time to settle ...

I think that the reaction is because no-one else has declared so openly a fee for crewing .... that's the difference.

Thinking about people that have crewed on my old tub ... I reckon that £30 for a weekend probably runs about same as I have received without asking ... by time I add up beers, meal, extra food / bevvies on board and odd berthing fee ... so I don't think its unreasonable.

What I do have a difficulty with ... is I think Insurance may have a clause similar to cars ... For hire / reward .... declaring a fee of £30 before-hand could be construed by Ins. as Reward or Hire ???? Maybe another may be able to correct this ??
 

AIDY

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Re: The Forum is still young ...

not getting into the in's and out of the post. but i do agree about the fee and regard to insurance. is the boat coded ? it should be if you are charging a fee.

His website has joining instructions suggesting a fee of 10 pounds a day share of marina fees and fuel. and dont forget a bottle of red wine for the skipper and your wallet. I have no problem with this if the boat was coded.

I like most people on this forum treat my crew as guests onboard, and never complain at the odd beer that gets bought for me in the public house of an evening.
 

gjbentley

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Re: The Forum is still young ...but will not last at this rate

Delf - Congratulations you have convinced me this new forum is no more than a debating club for those who have no intention of seeking a crew opportunity, which was my original incentive for posting a message.

I decide to make it a shared expenses cruise, with an easy formula for its calculation and suddenly that old problem with the sailing fraternity kicks in - i.e. obsession with correctness to the degree common sense gets overlooked.

Should I write to 17 of the Skippers that have charged me a set daily rate for shared expenses over the last 6 years to warn them about the need to be "coded" ? Expect you would. Try going to the CA Skipper & Crew evening at their London base one night - and see how many Skippers are using the same method as me. I should know as I learnt from their practice when I used to regularly crew.

I could undertand it if I were making a profit, then words like "commercial fee" could be applied. But that is not the case, and the reason why my insurance company does not have a problem - rang Bishops Skinner today to confirm. The chap was puzzled by my question - "So what exactly is the problem Sir ?".

The Forum member who responded to my offer to crew for me this weekend has now shared with me that it will be the cheapest cruise is has had since he passed his RYA DS. He fully understands it is not a fee, just an estimation, (and a conservative one at that), for his share of the expenses incurred. You can argue the point as much as you like but life in the real world goes on.
 
G

Guest

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I agree with the reasoning ...

I'm not wanting to destroy the forum at this early stage ... it was my idea to ask YBW to host it ...

Lets put it again ... This next week I am sailing SA in UK ... I have a guy who has agreed to crew with me (I don't like FOR me ... as I sail as company not master and crew ...). He has already offered to share expenses without any prompt / request from me. That is how I see it and that is how most I have had on board have acted. I have shared expenses on others boats ...

What I am saying - Is I have never had to apply a fee or ask for some money. Ok some people like to make it more "certain" .... that is their choice.

I was the one who mentioned possible problems if the fee was seen as a Reward or Hire .... of course Bishop Skinner are within their powers to decide how they view it as well as the boat skipper is in his way of presenting it to the Ins. Co. But beware .... if a crew has an accident on board and just for arguments sake one crew mentions that it was a fee-paid adventure ........... I don't give much chance for it then. The damaging words have been spoken. IMHO ......

Let's get this back to crewing ... I think both sides have valid points ... and both sides have decided that is what they will do ... ok - why argue ...

Grandslam - you basically say the forum has failed because some do not agree with your system ... but that's not true - You have crew based on a post on this very forum. If that is not forum working - then what is ?

This is not a Commercial Crewing Forum ... nor is my companion Yahoo Group database site. So is open to debate and posting as all forums are.

Please peeps - relax and stop bickering ... enjoy your boats ....
 

ashanta

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Just looking at it from a different angle, would there be a legal aspect created by charging a "stranger" as crew as opposed to a "friend" crewing for free?
I sail mainly single handed and only sail otherwise with friends so I am unfamiliar with legal aspect to this but there could be?
 

moondancer

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Re: Costs and who pays ...

I agree with the others - I have never charged.

Also, I believe (but could be wrong) that charging puts you in an uncomfortable grey area regarding 'chartering'. MCA coding for the boat comes into play, as does insurance.

i.e. You may not be covered if charging for crew.
 
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