ex-Gladys
Well-known member
Actually the Col Regs trump the racing rules, the RRS used to state this, haven't looked at them for a few years
Courteous & considerate navigation
- Thread starter Dan Tribe
- Start date
The Q
Well-known member
COL REGS don't apply on the Norfolk Broads, but the Broads By laws do..
https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/180631/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf
Which is always fun when there is an online dispute and someone starts quoting Colregs.. They are, in meaning, very similar, but not the same..
Not that it matters, the sailors generally know the rules and the tourists have never heard of them or col regs..
Also there's a great amount of interpretation needed, close sailing on the broads means less than 6 inches apart.
The club has a " No forcing motor boats off the bank" rule, so that the motorboat doesn't then impede boats sailing behind, our rivers are narrow enough without getting inexperienced tourists wandering around in a motorboat in the middle of the river..
Many years ago, at least 50 years, the broads used to have a real difference in regs... All running boats had to give way to All tacking boats on whatever tack..
Did have a huge argument with a Navy man (not officer) tourist on his hire boat, he was complaining bitterly that the sailing boats weren't keeping clear... His version of clear was several times the length of the hire boat..
Another group who've never read the navigation rules is fishermen, who don't like it when you tell them they have to,
Not moor more than 13ft off the bank, not fish under power, and remove lines to allow boats to pass..
https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/180631/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf
Which is always fun when there is an online dispute and someone starts quoting Colregs.. They are, in meaning, very similar, but not the same..
Not that it matters, the sailors generally know the rules and the tourists have never heard of them or col regs..
Also there's a great amount of interpretation needed, close sailing on the broads means less than 6 inches apart.
The club has a " No forcing motor boats off the bank" rule, so that the motorboat doesn't then impede boats sailing behind, our rivers are narrow enough without getting inexperienced tourists wandering around in a motorboat in the middle of the river..
Many years ago, at least 50 years, the broads used to have a real difference in regs... All running boats had to give way to All tacking boats on whatever tack..
Did have a huge argument with a Navy man (not officer) tourist on his hire boat, he was complaining bitterly that the sailing boats weren't keeping clear... His version of clear was several times the length of the hire boat..
Another group who've never read the navigation rules is fishermen, who don't like it when you tell them they have to,
Not moor more than 13ft off the bank, not fish under power, and remove lines to allow boats to pass..
The Q
Well-known member
This is part of the header to part 2 of the current RRS.
"When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. If the notice of race so states, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the rightof-way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way rules"
Here is the current RRS.
RRS20212024Finalwithbookmarks-[27255].pdf (sailing.org)
"When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way rules. If the notice of race so states, the rules of Part 2 are replaced by the rightof-way rules of the IRPCAS or by government right-of-way rules"
Here is the current RRS.
RRS20212024Finalwithbookmarks-[27255].pdf (sailing.org)
Bigplumbs
Well-known member
What is it with people who like to quote all these rules. Makes me laugh when people expect hire boats to understand them never gonna happen so best to just accept that
Leighb
Well-known member
Our experience of sailing/motoring on the Broads taught us to never underestimate the stupidity of hire craft!
I could relate many incidents but one will suffice.
We we’re moored just above Acle bridge opposite the boatyard and saw a newly arriving crew, they were “instructed” for a maximum of 15 mins and then let loose.
They decided to moor up in a gap astern of us about twice the length of the boat, it took about 30 mins to achieve. All manoeuvres were carried out using full power in ahead and astern and it took the combined efforts of three of us from already moored boats to finally get them alongside without any damage to our boats.
One can’t blame them entirely as it was clear from talking to them afterwards that the only instruction they had about driving the boat was , push this lever forward to go ahead and back to go astern, and use the wheel like in a car. No indication that the gear lever was also a speed control!
It is hardly surprising that hire craft can be erratic and/or dangerous, and that is without adding in the benefit of alcohol. We learnt that it is best to stay put over the weekend if practicable.
As already said the Southern rivers are generally quieter with fewer hirecraft, but the North is perhaps prettier and there are more attractive riverside attractions.
I could relate many incidents but one will suffice.
We we’re moored just above Acle bridge opposite the boatyard and saw a newly arriving crew, they were “instructed” for a maximum of 15 mins and then let loose.
They decided to moor up in a gap astern of us about twice the length of the boat, it took about 30 mins to achieve. All manoeuvres were carried out using full power in ahead and astern and it took the combined efforts of three of us from already moored boats to finally get them alongside without any damage to our boats.
One can’t blame them entirely as it was clear from talking to them afterwards that the only instruction they had about driving the boat was , push this lever forward to go ahead and back to go astern, and use the wheel like in a car. No indication that the gear lever was also a speed control!
It is hardly surprising that hire craft can be erratic and/or dangerous, and that is without adding in the benefit of alcohol. We learnt that it is best to stay put over the weekend if practicable.
As already said the Southern rivers are generally quieter with fewer hirecraft, but the North is perhaps prettier and there are more attractive riverside attractions.
The Q
Well-known member
I was stood on the front of the sailing club quay.. the river does a 90 right at point looking down river..
helm of a 40ft hire boat say's take over I'm going to the loo..
Low twenties girl on board ,shouts what do I do? what do I do? hands waving around in the air... 40ft boat torpedoes moored 30ft hire boat mid ships, bow through a window, cracking hull to below water line and cabin roof...
Members of the club stopped the 30 footer from sinking by dropping a tarpaulin over the hull.. Boat yard towed away the wreckage later..
Often had to help hire boats off a lee mooring, (normally the one the 30 footer was moored on). They have no idea and just keep going forwards and backwards hitting the boats in front and behind..
helm of a 40ft hire boat say's take over I'm going to the loo..
Low twenties girl on board ,shouts what do I do? what do I do? hands waving around in the air... 40ft boat torpedoes moored 30ft hire boat mid ships, bow through a window, cracking hull to below water line and cabin roof...
Members of the club stopped the 30 footer from sinking by dropping a tarpaulin over the hull.. Boat yard towed away the wreckage later..
Often had to help hire boats off a lee mooring, (normally the one the 30 footer was moored on). They have no idea and just keep going forwards and backwards hitting the boats in front and behind..
johnalison
Well-known member
Maybe I'm dreaming but I really don't think it was like that in ye olden days. My father was in his 60s when I entered my teens and we messed around there. We always slept in a cabin cruiser of 36ft and used lugs'l dinghies or a Yare & Bure one-design for sailing, shared between six of us. I clearly remember when I was 12 helming the cruiser into Thurn Dyke and turning it in its own length at the end under my fater's tuition. My impression is that people are variously mechanically clueless, spatially unaware, and short of a sense of responsibility these days, and that is only on the roads before they even get into a boat.
LONG_KEELER
Well-known member
I think wheel and rudder blindness on hire craft is very common. Particularly under pressure.
I've noticed it a lot . Particularly canal boats with just a tiller. You can only learn as you go I suppose.
I've noticed it a lot . Particularly canal boats with just a tiller. You can only learn as you go I suppose.
LittleSister
Well-known member
Those posts remind me that years ago I sailed a Firefly dinghy on a narrow stretch of river frequented by motor boats. Being a small family club with very restricted waters nobody (with a few dishonourable exceptions) took the racing very seriously, so we just worked around the motorboats, treating them as 'obstructions', and never expected them to give way.
Most of the time that worked, but there were always those motorboats who had no conception of how a sailing boat moved, no matter how many they had previously seen; were easily panicked; and it also never occurred to them that they could avoid collisions by altering speed, rather than course.
So you'd be tacking up the river heading towards one bank, having calculated you'd have tacked and be out of their way off to the other side of the river before the approaching motorboat arrived at that point. The motorboat would see you heading to 'their' side of the river, panic, and swerve across the river towards where you were planning to be after your tack. A merry dance would then ensue while you short tacked back into 'their' side bank, they'd then swerve back in towards that bank seemingly urgently wanting to recover the line they were on (no matter how inconsistent with the rules it was), putting their boat just where you needed to be after the additional tack at the bank you were now making.
More than once I had to just ram the boat into the bank, or turn onto a run, to avoid the collision every move of a motorboat seemed determined to achieve!
Most of the time that worked, but there were always those motorboats who had no conception of how a sailing boat moved, no matter how many they had previously seen; were easily panicked; and it also never occurred to them that they could avoid collisions by altering speed, rather than course.
So you'd be tacking up the river heading towards one bank, having calculated you'd have tacked and be out of their way off to the other side of the river before the approaching motorboat arrived at that point. The motorboat would see you heading to 'their' side of the river, panic, and swerve across the river towards where you were planning to be after your tack. A merry dance would then ensue while you short tacked back into 'their' side bank, they'd then swerve back in towards that bank seemingly urgently wanting to recover the line they were on (no matter how inconsistent with the rules it was), putting their boat just where you needed to be after the additional tack at the bank you were now making.
More than once I had to just ram the boat into the bank, or turn onto a run, to avoid the collision every move of a motorboat seemed determined to achieve!
Capt Popeye
Well-known member
Yep them were the days of Fun , Excitement , Folly , Cowardice in the face of the enemy , etc etc quoting some silly rules or other at each other or to oneself , those sure were the days of early Boating on them Broads .
My guess is though that you have survived it all , and are now a better Skipper for those experiences !
LittleSister
Well-known member
That wasn't actually on the Broads, though it's much the same there - ignorance, foolishness, and just plain old-fashioned confusion are widely and generously distributed!
Better than I might have been, perhaps (though that's not saying a lot!
).