Composting toilets/Paris Arsenal/French canals

lilianroyle

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We are planning to go through the canals to the med via Paris. We did this in 2003 equipped with a sea toilet which we simply never used. I understand that rules are now more stringent, and in Paris they want pictures of your installation. Does anyone (Grehan?) know how Composting toilets are viewed by the VNF and in particular the marina at Paris Arsenal? Any tips on getting into the Paris Arsenal? Last time we were there for 6 months and it was really straightforward, but I assume it’s got more difficult?
 

Grehan

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Apologies, only just saw this.
The answer is, I don't know under all headings. I wasn't aware that Paris was more stringent, nor that photos of one's installation were required, nor the Arsenal's view ref composting toilets . . . . ! Pretty hopeless, so if anyone can save my embarrassment with some info. I'd be grateful.
 

Grehan

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So far no information about 'more stringency' etc. but thanks to the excellent DBA Forum Toilets - Paris there is a clear indication that whatever one's toilet arrangement (composting or otherwise) no effluent (grey or black) would be permitted to discharge into the marina.
 

syvictoria

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Excuse my possible ignorance, but via the link above I've come to the mooring reservation form on the Fayolle Paris website: Demande de réservation

This asks via check boxes for confirmation of:

Environmental equipment:
- My boat is not equipped with wastewater collection tanks
- My boat is equipped with a black water recovery tank (WC)
- My boat is equipped with a gray water recovery tank (shower, sink)
- I certify that all the waste water from the boat (black and gray water) is properly connected to the recovery tank (s) of my boat and that it does not emit any discharge into the reach

together with a request for photo proof ("Proof of the presence of wastewater recovery tank (s) (Photos, installation invoice, sworn statement, etc.). Equipment quotes or invoices are not valid.").

We at present have a black water tank (without deck pump out, gravity discharge only, plus a chemical loo), but no grey water tank. Would we therefore be unable to stay?

My apologies for the possible thread drift, but will we encounter similar problems elsewhere (coming from NL to the med)?

TIA!
 

Grehan

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Not going to get answers on this unless the Arsenal is contacted and questioned. Demande d'information But it does read as though photographic evidence (or a self-certifying Attestation) is required . . . .
. . . and this is the first time I have seen this kind of detailed information being required, so I don't think it is (yet) widespread.
 

Roberto

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The main issue is 2024 Paris Olympics: the organizers have decided to hold a number of sporting events on/in the Seine so they are keenly looking for safe health approvals, which at the moment mostly means reducing the faecal bacteria concentration, Escherichia Coli &co. I reckon during the next couple of years there will not be much leeway on that matter.
Anyway, I live 10 min from Arsenal basin and 10 from VNF Paris office I can go and ask them directly, what would the questions be?
Composting toilets? Chemical toilets? Allowed on board sanitary fixtures?
r.
 

Grehan

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The Olympics aspect is probably an obvious one, the spur for enhanced scrutiny. Thanks for flagging that up.
I would guess that if you were kind enough to quiz the Arsenal capitainerie then apart from a general discussion around the topics, the need for grey water prevention and the nature of the evidence (e.g photographic) would be more focused questions. I wonder when the requirements first came in.
Similar if you visited VNF - their plans vis-à-vis the Olympics - but you'd need to find the right person to discuss with.
 

Mudisox

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The main issue is 2024 Paris Olympics: the organizers have decided to hold a number of sporting events on/in the Seine so they are keenly looking for safe health approvals, which at the moment mostly means reducing the faecal bacteria concentration, Escherichia Coli &co. I reckon during the next couple of years there will not be much leeway on that matter.

A bit like the restrictions for 2012 in Weymouth Bay, which led to fewer boats anchoring in the Bay than on a normal day, and the increased costs to provide pump out facilities!
 

Roberto

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I've just gone to the Arsenal Basin Fayolle port office to ask, their answers:
1. Nothing must be discharged in the water, no black nor grey waters
2. The "marina" has permanent pump out facilities for all the boats
3. All boats must have grey and black waters tanks and pump out outlets, they will be permanently connected to the shore marina system during the mooring period.
4. Required proof of installation is either a purchase bill or photographic evidence
5. Composting toilets are not allowed
The person knew the rules very well, I think their application is strict.

I forgot to ask, my assumption is the boat grey waters can be collected into the black water tank then discharged, possibly a specific grey water tank is not necessary (?)
 

syvictoria

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A further update has appeared on a (very!) similar thread on the DBA - The Barge Association - DBA forum:

I recently made a booking at Arsenal Marina for summer '24 and asked specifically about waste water. The below is the response I got

Les bateaux séjournant au port en escale n’ont pas l’obligation d’avoir une cuve de récupération des eaux usées mais ont l’interdiction de rejeter ces eaux dans le bassin du port.

Vous devrez alors utiliser les sanitaires du port mis à votre disposition.


Basically, you don't need to have waste tanks, but you can't let any waste water into the marina.

On a separate topic, I close friend of mine is involved in the organisation of the 2024 games. Last time we spoke, she was very curious about our arrangements in the UK. She mentioned that the laws brought in on the back of using the Paris waterways for open water events would require boaters to not deposit any grey or black water into the river. Definitely a change from how it would have been previously.
Google translates the French above as:
Boats staying at the port on a stopover are not required to have a wastewater collection tank but are prohibited from discharging this water into the port basin. You will then have to use the port sanitary facilities at your disposal.

It seems that perhaps short visits/stopovers might still be possible after all.
 
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