Change and decay in all around I see.

[Poecheng]

This started as a thread about change and decay. Some images of change and decay

Underwoods

Morgans.. they took delivery of half a dozen of these last month to move customers boats about

Underwoods

Morgans, As happens, I am not a fan of spsort fishing boats but clearly it is pretty much brand new and being prepared for a new owner.

Underwoods

Which offers a vision of a prosperous future creating jobs and opportunity?

Peter at Underwoods is a decent chap. It is unfair to try to muscle him out, which appears to be what is happening. If you want your boat looked after personally and carefully but at reasonable (low) cost then Peter is your man, unless you want a pristine concrete yard etc etc and want to pay for someone else's development. Horses for courses. Personally I like yards like Underwoods and we were very happy there for a number of years.

 

[Tomahawk]

I am not trying to mussle anyone out so please don’t out words into my mouth. I am just comparing the rusty hulks and rotting boats in his yard with the investment that Oli and Graham are making. On whch subject, Morgan Marine spent £40,000 removing the rotting hulks in the East Basin. There are two rusting hulks at Underwoods. Has Peter got enough cash to pay for their removal? Or will they continue to rust until they collapse and possibly block the slipway. Whilst they remain, it is not possble to improve facilities. In the end Underwoods will either have to spend money to maintain the business or it will scrape a living until Peter retires and then likes as not the land is sold to a developer who will barge through the planning system and build a millionaires waterside pad.

So it is a reasonable question as to which business offers the most for boat owners and the community?

 

[Tomahawk]

Yes, it is known as Cell Block H and an absolute travesty of what should have been built on that site.
Had planning listened to what the old Brightlingsea Society had proposed for the site...low level development with alongside Barge/Smack berths, a mixture of residential and retail with the cill'ed Marina as an added bonus we would have come close'ish to replicating Maldon!
Instead what we have is an eyesore of a block of flats supported on piles that have been driven in 60' into what is almost bottomless alluvial mud! As you mention Tomahawk it is already beginning to look slightly out of kilter...I wouldn't want one of those places for love nor money!

Sit down and pour yourself a stiff whiskey...... I agree with you about James and Stone.

But sadly, the Brightlingsea Society didn’t come up with the money to do as you wanted. And it takes a lot of money to build a cilled marina. Can I suggest that instead of objecting to Morgan Marine trying to invest, that you approach the new owners and offer to buy the bunsiness from them. They are busnessmen. They will talk money if you are serious. Given the level of objection being expressed, it should be easy to set up a crowd funding exercise to raise the cash and form a cooperative. Once you buy the business, you will be able to do as you wish. You can have your smack dock and low level development as you want.

 

[Poecheng]

I am not trying to mussle anyone out so please don’t out words into my mouth.

I didn't remotely suggest you were.

 

[Cobra]

Sit down and pour yourself a stiff whiskey...... I agree with you about James and Stone.

Well, it is a bit early in the day for that, but the sentiment is appreciated!

As I have already said, I would actively support the Millers if they went back to the original scheme as outlined to me by a certain Rick Morgan back in I think it was about 12-14 years ago. The planned expansion has been in the pipeline for years and no one has had any objections to expanding their operations to the West as long as they remain on the same MLWS line that their current pontoons sit at. It is just the "We are going to use half of the navigable channel for our commercial benefit, so get over it" attitude that seems to emanate. It is a shame, as I doubt that Ricks father Len who founded LH Morgan and Sons, would ever have wanted to cause such division in the waterside community that had supported them when they took over what was the old Orton & Wenlocks chandlery.

Still, nowt that can be done about it by we mere mortals...it is in the hands of TDC's planning department now, so absolutely anything could happen!!!

 

[Tomahawk]

If you are talking anbout the navigable channel..... I presume you are demanding that all the moorings in the south channel past Cindery are removed as they clearly prevent navigation. Indeed I can't get my boat (same width as EDME) past No3 buoy in the Sough channel on account of the pontoons and moorings.
You do understand I am playing devils advocate. But if navigation is an issue then I suggest that it needs be addressed all across the harbour.

And yes I believe the 76 PP is still extant and that they can build the western basin at the moment. Of course that would prohibit ships turning in the fairway as they presently do by putting their bow into the mud on land that ls leased to Morgan Marine. They are trying very hard to avoid shutting down the port.

 

[Cobra]

If you are talking anbout the navigable channel..... I presume you are demanding that all the moorings in the south channel past Cindery are removed as they clearly prevent navigation. Indeed I can't get my boat (same width as EDME) past No3 buoy in the Sough channel on account of the pontoons and moorings.
You do understand I am playing devils advocate. But if navigation is an issue then I suggest that it needs be addressed all across the harbour.

OK...I do see your point about the South Channel, but I can vouch for the 61 years of my 65 that I have been on the water in Brightlingsea, that there have always been moorings in the South Channel. I also know from documents and photo's from when my late father had a 24' gaffer just after the war that there were moorings in the South Channel. In fact the South channel has always been designated as an area for moorings with the fairway to and from Flag Creek and St Osyth Creek in the North Channel (obviously St Osyth Creek transiting via the Folly making matters even more tide dependent), but that is the route that the Sailing Barges always took when heading up to St Osyth Mill.
It is a difficult one and I do see and appreciate what the Millers are trying to achieve...it just cuts against the grain with how Brightlingsea has always been and I am not necessarily in favour of seeing change for profit and no other real reason.
I would add that were the Harbour Commissioners to come up with a plan to place moorings all the way up the North Channel as well, I would be totally against that as it would be detracting and restricting the facility that Morgan Marine have already developed plus restricting usable access to St Osyth Creek for engineless Barges and Smacks!

 

[Tomahawk]

OK...I do see your point about the South Channel, but I can vouch for the 61 years of my 65 that I have been on the water in Brightlingsea, that there have always been moorings in the South Channel. I also know from documents and photo's from when my late father had a 24' gaffer just after the war that there were moorings in the South Channel. In fact the South channel has always been designated as an area for moorings with the fairway to and from Flag Creek and St Osyth Creek in the North Channel (obviously St Osyth Creek transiting via the Folly making matters even more tide dependent), but that is the route that the Sailing Barges always took when heading up to St Osyth Mill.
It is a difficult one and I do see and appreciate what the Millers are trying to achieve...it just cuts against the grain with how Brightlingsea has always been and I am not necessarily in favour of seeing change for profit and no other real reason.
I would add that were the Harbour Commissioners to come up with a plan to place moorings all the way up the North Channel as well, I would be totally against that as it would be detracting and restricting the facility that Morgan Marine have already developed plus restricting usable access to St Osyth Creek for engineless Barges and Smacks!

As I said, I am playing devils advocate...

But in relation to how it used to be, Brightlingsea used to have a thriving marine industry. James and .stone was a major ship builder and the sheds that are now storage and Park and Ride were also heavily involved with marine work. There was a concrete slip where the smack dock is now. The marine industry has changed and we have lost those parts of our heritage to be replaced by a collection of old rotting smacks with chaps with beards and smocks. Lovely as they are very few people can afford to run a traditional smack as a hobby.

The town faces a stark choice, encourage people to invest ... and yes make a profit.... and create employment, bring in visitors and opportunity, or cling to a pastiche of the past whilst industry moves away and the next waterfront yard is converted for housing.

On which subject, I wonder if anyone is eyeing up Olivers Wharf for housing? If so what would be the benefit of that? get rid of the HGV traffic and noise/dust in favour of another Cell Block H. But without the shipping, the creek would silt up and the harbour become less attractive for marine activity that involves a keel.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

I think the car parking issues need to be solved first.

West Mersea and Maldon have the same problem. Most people living in these places don't want to solve the problem and like things as they are now . Who can blame them.

The retail park and industrial estate's were invented for good reasons.

 

[Cobra]

On which subject, I wonder if anyone is eyeing up Olivers Wharf for housing? If so what would be the benefit of that? get rid of the HGV traffic and noise/dust in favour of another Cell Block H. But without the shipping, the creek would silt up and the harbour become less attractive for marine activity that involves a keel.

All of which once again brings us round once again to the elephant in the room...Morgan Marines current proposed development of half of the creek as an 'Essex Marina' style development only on a much narrower and shallower stretch of water!

If the Morgan Marine development is allowed to proceed in its proposed format, the river pilots have already made their feelings on the matter abundantly clear. They are not prepared to bring ships into the wharf without an adequate "emergency exit" if they lose power or are forced to take sudden avoiding action. As they have said if they were to lose power on approach to the wharf or while swinging round, all of the yachts on the last 50 mtrs or so and possibly more would be wiped out and anyone on board any of those said yachts would also be in mortal danger.

So, on the assumption that Morgan Marine were to get the nod on the plans as they stand, then it is highly likely that Olivers Wharf as we know it would cease to function and would no doubt be sold to a developer desperate to put more "little boxes on the quayside, little boxes made of glass and steel" (with apologies to Pete Seeger!). The plus side it would reduce the number of HGV's entering the town the down side is that the already over burdened infrastructure of the town would suffer further.

• As it stands the Doctors surgery is full to capacity, they take new patients on, but have difficulty servicing the patient base they already have.
• The schools are full...they have had to place new pre-fab classrooms at both the St James Junior School and the Colne Community School and all available spaces have already been taken.
• We have one fire engine that has to service Brightlingsea, Thorrington and Great Bentley and is also on standby to assist Wivenhoe, Colchester and Clacton if needs be.
• We have no Police Station with officers on call having to come from Clacton which is 10 miles away...the joke being that at any one moment in time the Clacton station will have a maximum of 5 officers on duty...one on the front desk and four out in two patrol cars. This station actually provides cover for ALL of the Tendring District. Back in my youth there were three officers on duty at any one time covering Brightlingsea alone!
• Brightlingsea is now a town nearly 3 times the population of 50 odd years ago and it really does need a sign placed at the town boundary saying "Developers, kindly Sod Off...we are Full!"

So, perhaps you can see my concern about the Morgan Marine development is not just for the river, which you have probably already worked out I know like the back of my hand and has been a formative part of my life, but also for the ramifications to the town in general if it is allowed to go ahead in its current proposed form.

It is all well and good the Millers saying they will be creating jobs, but the flip side of the coin is that their 'job creation' will also result in a large number of people actually losing their jobs. Net result from what I have heard is that it would likely be a break even situation.

 

[Bristolfashion]

^Those are very good points.^

What started me off on this thread was a trip by car with my two sons to visit DRS Rigging in Southminster, in search of a new forestay for the younger son’s Squib. (Broke on Saturday, replacement made in thirty minutes on Monday morning, by a real keelboat rigging expert who told us the measurements, whilst other firms were thinking about answering the email and asking for measurements - which illustrates the value of small local firms!).

On the way home to Suffolk we called in at some favourite places - Heybridge Basin, Tollesbury and West Mersea. None of them looked flourishing, from the messing about in boats point of view.

The point about learning in single handers is a particularly good one. I learned in an RNSA 14, with a brother, a sister and a parent. We had read “Swallows and Amazons” before starting, of course.

Before graduating to "We didn't mean to go to sea" of course - a cracking read.

 

[Tomahawk]

Indeed, parking is a significant problem. The old town is not laid out with cars in mind. But as you recognise, the residents can manage as things are, albeit because ECC have no imposed parking controls in the "streets".

 

[Tomahawk]

....

If the Morgan Marine development is allowed to proceed, the river pilots have already made their feelings on the matter abundantly clear. They are not prepared to bring ships into the wharf without an adequate "emergency exit" if they lose power or are forced to take sudden avoiding action. As they have said if they were to lose power on approach to the wharf or while swinging round, all of the yachts on the last 50 mtrs or so and possibly more would be wiped out and anyone on board any of those said yachts would also be in mortal danger.
...

If as you say, the pilots are concerned; what do the pilots at Felixstowe do when they bring in a ship the size of the Ever Given? So they swing it on her anchor? or drive the nose into Shotley spit? Of course we know the answer, they use tugs. And what about ports like Shoreham where they enter the lock? An engine failure when transiting a lock would likes as not result in smashing open the lock and draining the basin... eeeeeek

It seems to me that swinging a 105m ship in a creek that is only 90m wide is seriously risking it. If as you say there is an engine fail half way through a swing, the ship (pilots) will end up repeating the incident at Kings Lynn where a coaster carrying out a similar swing, broke her back. Perhaps this discussion will force a rethink of what seems like an accident waiting to happen?

 

[PaulRainbow]

If as you say, the pilots are concerned; what do the pilots at Felixstowe do when they bring in a ship the size of the Ever Given? So they swing it on her anchor? or drive the nose into Shotley spit? Of course we know the answer, they use tugs. And what about ports like Shoreham where they enter the lock? An engine failure when transiting a lock would likes as not result in smashing open the lock and draining the basin... eeeeeek

It seems to me that swinging a 105m ship in a creek that is only 90m wide is seriously risking it. If as you say there is an engine fail half way through a swing, the ship (pilots) will end up repeating the incident at Kings Lynn where a coaster carrying out a similar swing, broke her back. Perhaps this discussion will force a rethink of what seems like an accident waiting to happen?

It was Sutton Bridge on the River Nene, not Kings Lynn and it was not caused by an engine failure. It was caused by a series of failures to follow procedure.

The correct procedure was to enter the river just before HW, sail through the port and out of the other side, swing the bow hard to Stb into the turning bay allowing the side and engines/thrusters to push the stern around as the vessel reversed out of the turning bay to face back towards the port. At which time the vessel goes ahead into the port and moors up. During the whole procedure the small tug should be on standby to assist in pulling the stern around, should the need arise (which, i understand was rare).

The vessel in question was late coming in and the tide had already started to turn, so the stern didn't swing around as it should. Cue the tug. Hmm, the tug isn't on standby, it's in Wisbech and all of the crew have gone home. By the time the crew arrived and motored the tug the 15 miles to Sutton Bridge, too late.

It's a tried and tested procedure, which, if followed is not "an accident waiting to happen". Vessels have been swung in small ports on "narrow" rivers for hundreds of years, Sutton Bridge and Wisbech still do it, as do no doubt dozens of others.

How many ships have broken their backs in Brightlingsea ?

 

[Jan Harber]

All of which once again brings us round once again to the elephant in the room...Morgan Marines current proposed development of half of the creek as an 'Essex Marina' style development only on a much narrower and shallower stretch of water!

If the Morgan Marine development is allowed to proceed in its proposed format, the river pilots have already made their feelings on the matter abundantly clear. They are not prepared to bring ships into the wharf without an adequate "emergency exit" if they lose power or are forced to take sudden avoiding action. As they have said if they were to lose power on approach to the wharf or while swinging round, all of the yachts on the last 50 mtrs or so and possibly more would be wiped out and anyone on board any of those said yachts would also be in mortal danger.

So, on the assumption that Morgan Marine were to get the nod on the plans as they stand, then it is highly likely that Olivers Wharf as we know it would cease to function and would no doubt be sold to a developer desperate to put more "little boxes on the quayside, little boxes made of glass and steel" (with apologies to Pete Seeger!). The plus side it would reduce the number of HGV's entering the town the down side is that the already over burdened infrastructure of the town would suffer further.

• As it stands the Doctors surgery is full to capacity, they take new patients on, but have difficulty servicing the patient base they already have.
• The schools are full...they have had to place new pre-fab classrooms at both the St James Junior School and the Colne Community School and all available spaces have already been taken.
• We have one fire engine that has to service Brightlingsea, Thorrington and Great Bentley and is also on standby to assist Wivenhoe, Colchester and Clacton if needs be.
• We have no Police Station with officers on call having to come from Clacton which is 10 miles away...the joke being that at any one moment in time the Clacton station will have a maximum of 5 officers on duty...one on the front desk and four out in two patrol cars. This station actually provides cover for ALL of the Tendring District. Back in my youth there were three officers on duty at any one time covering Brightlingsea alone!
• Brightlingsea is now a town nearly 3 times the population of 50 odd years ago and it really does need a sign placed at the town boundary saying "Developers, kindly Sod Off...we are Full!"

So, perhaps you can see my concern about the Morgan Marine development is not just for the river, which you have probably already worked out I know like the back of my hand and has been a formative part of my life, but also for the ramifications to the town in general if it is allowed to go ahead in its current proposed form.

It is all well and good the Millers saying they will be creating jobs, but the flip side of the coin is that their 'job creation' will also result in a large number of people actually losing their jobs. Net result from what I have heard is that it would likely be a break even situation.

I thought Pete Seeger’s “little boxes” were “all made of ticky tacky”?

 

[Tomahawk]

Fortunately none......... yet.
But without a tug on standby there doesn't appear to be much by way of plan B.

 

[Cobra]

I thought Pete Seeger’s “little boxes” were “all made of ticky tacky”?

Hence my apologies to Pete Seeger Jan...although looking at them, maybe they are made of Ticky Tacky!!!

 

[Kukri]

Here’s a sight from my boyhood, known more widely as the nineteen sixties.



Everards’ “Sedulity”, on her weekly voyage from Goole to Colchester Gasworks, with six hundred tons of coal.

If the only consequences of an engine failure are hitting the mud, as with her bigger sister, “Sincerity”, here, in about the same spot above Rowhedge,



then there isn’t much to worry about.

… edited to add - poor old “Sincerity” was neaped, and stuck there for several days, which caused a sense of humour failure amongst the owner skippers of several Dutch coasters…

 

[Cobra]

Fortunately none......... yet.
But without a tug on standby there doesn't appear to be much by way of plan B.

Oh, but there is! Plan B is either the mud banks on Cindrey or the mud banks to the West of Morgans current berths...mud has been expertly stopping ships and boats of all sizes for decades!!!

 

[Tomahawk]

Oh, but there is! Plan B is either the mud banks on Cindrey or the mud banks to the West of Morgans current berths...mud has been expertly stopping ships and boats of all sizes for decades!!!

Cindery is an SSSI and SPA and part of a RAMSAR. site so driving ships into it is environmentally irrisponsible even if it happens by accident. The real problem is that the pilots are presently doing it on purpose as can be seen in satallite immagry.

And the mud banks to the west of Morgans berths actually belong to them, (or are leased from the Crown estates). AFAIA they can put moorings out there right now.