Chain retrieval speed

Little Dorrit

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How important is this when anchoring? While weighing anchor by hand especially single handed it's vital. However assuming a remote control for the windlass allowing the windlass to be controlled from the cockpit how important is it? Assuming 50m of chain the difference between a slow windlass at 18m/min vs a faster one at 35m/min would only halve the time it takes to get the anchor fully up so a difference of about 80 or 90 seconds. I would be interested to hear of any situations where such a time difference would be so important to the safety of the vessel.
 
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Sticky Fingers

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Alright. But you make a good point. I’ve never been concerned about this for two reasons … I never go out in bad weather. And I never anchor in water deeper than about 6m. So retrieval is always leisurely and unhurried.
 

Black Sheep

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The critical time is the period between the anchor breaking out (so the boat is no longer attached to the bottom) and the point you can be at the helm pointing the boat in the right direction under sail or motor, with the anchor adequately safe.

If you've got 50m of chain out, then assuming 5:1 scope, you're in water that's no more than 10m deep (possibly a lot less if you're leaving at half tide). If you've been there overnight and the anchor is well dug in, then it probably won;t break out until the chain is near vertical - ie about 10m of chain is out there. The other 40m are already safe in the chain locker.

In an ideal world, you'd reel in all 10m and secure the anchor on the bow roller before motoring out, but at a pinch, you could leave it dangling for a short while if things are really tight.

The question is, once the boat is adrift, how quickly do you need to be at the helm to avoid going onto the mud/into another vessel? The answer will depend on the situation (how tight a spot?) the conditions (calm? blowing a hoolie towards the putty?) and your boat (windage? draught? directional stability?).

If you're doing it all from the cockpit, you're already there... so I'm not sure it matters. You just need to get the anchor off the bed, and above seabed hazards. If you're motoring out, you'll be able to at least keep station, even if you have a Bruce dangling 2m below the boat.

Doing it by hand at the pointy end - sure, you need to have your wits about you. But it's only the last 10m you need worry about.
 

Neeves

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If you need to be out on deck then the difference if you retreive 50m is standing in the raid, cold and wind for twice as long. Remotes are not infallible.

We don't have a remote but a switch at the helm and the two conventional foot switches.

Basically we always use the foot switches because you need to be at the bow to manage the retrieval.

I don't know where you anchor but we find there is the occasional seaweed on the chain, that it is better to remove, rather than it sitting in the locker smothered with the rest of the chain. We find we need to stop and start the retrieval - it depends on what is brought up, whether the chain runs in straight over the roller and does not slide to one side etc. We find that someone needs to stand at the bow to wash the chain. Now of course if this is your wife she can stand in the cold, wet and wind slowly retrieving the chain and washing it - you will be tending the engine controls under the cover of the Bimini. :)

But your remote may never fail, you will not need to bother to wash as you retreive - it can just fester in the locker and have a life half what it should be.

One day when the yacht ahead of you drags its anchor you will be glad of all the speed + more available.

Retrieval speed makes a difference.

Jonathan
 

Neeves

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I would be more inclined to motor around the arc of my existing scope than try to get my anchor up, then deal with the possibility of a snag after.

It depends on the situation, yachts on either side of you? If your option was available - I'd want to deploy all my chain, quickly, so that I had as much room as possible. Our 'chain hook' is usually at the bow roller - we can unhitch quickly, virtually no chain to retrieve - then deploy the complete rode, we now have maximum room to move.

There is never one right answer - what you want is all the options.

Jonathan
 

lustyd

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Retrieval speed only makes a difference to how fast and hard your chain jams up.
it makes no difference what the raw speed of the windlass is for unladen chain. When you have to pull a few tons of boat towards the anchor at the same time they all go the same speed, a couple of metres of chain at a time then a little wait the boat moves and you move some chain about. As for remotes I’d prefer a remote for the throttle at the bow than a windlass remote where I can’t see the chain!
 

cmedsailor

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Med mooring (stern to) between two boats and blowing hard on the side. The speed of chain retrieval is important. You need to "pass" the boats next to you as quick as possible without catching their chains and as fast as possible before the wind pushes your boat above their chain scope. Typical situation in the Med!
 

vyv_cox

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Med mooring (stern to) between two boats and blowing hard on the side. The speed of chain retrieval is important. You need to "pass" the boats next to you as quick as possible without catching their chains and as fast as possible before the wind pushes your boat above their chain scope. Typical situation in the Med!
I was about to write the same. Retrieval speed makes a huge difference when leaving a stern-to berth.
 

dansaskip

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I am with Neeves here in that I always use the foot switches in the bow. How else do see how the chain is lying so the need to motor ahead, steer which way and to clear chain of weed, mud or other debris as it comes in?
 

RichardS

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If you need to be out on deck then the difference if you retreive 50m is standing in the raid, cold and wind for twice as long. Remotes are not infallible.

We don't have a remote but a switch at the helm and the two conventional foot switches.

Basically we always use the foot switches because you need to be at the bow to manage the retrieval.

I don't know where you anchor but we find there is the occasional seaweed on the chain, that it is better to remove, rather than it sitting in the locker smothered with the rest of the chain. We find we need to stop and start the retrieval - it depends on what is brought up, whether the chain runs in straight over the roller and does not slide to one side etc. We find that someone needs to stand at the bow to wash the chain. Now of course if this is your wife she can stand in the cold, wet and wind slowly retrieving the chain and washing it - you will be tending the engine controls under the cover of the Bimini. :)

But your remote may never fail, you will not need to bother to wash as you retreive - it can just fester in the locker and have a life half what it should be.

One day when the yacht ahead of you drags its anchor you will be glad of all the speed + more available.

Retrieval speed makes a difference.

Jonathan
I agree with you about being on the bow, but, within the range of retrieval speeds available with normal consumer windlasses, the difference in speed is not going to make any important difference.

If the yacht ahead of you is dragging back towards you, you are not normally going to be able to retrieve the anchor whatever retrieval speed you have. If you try to do that, you will simply reduce the time to impact as your boat moves forward unless the boat ahead is far ahead, in which case, there is no need to panic.

Richard
 

Neeves

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I agree with you about being on the bow, but, within the range of retrieval speeds available with normal consumer windlasses, the difference in speed is not going to make any important difference.

If the yacht ahead of you is dragging back towards you, you are not normally going to be able to retrieve the anchor whatever retrieval speed you have. If you try to do that, you will simply reduce the time to impact as your boat moves forward unless the boat ahead is far ahead, in which case, there is no need to panic.

Richard

Again - it depends, how far ahead the dragging yacht might be and at what speed he is dragging.

But when ever or what ever

Its better to have speed at your disposal than not.

I wonder how many have used a Maxwell windlass, or one that operates fast, and can compare.

Our Muir Atlantic, a normal consumer windlass, was rated at 14m/min. Our Maxwell is rated at 28m/min. Our Muir Atlantic would take 5 minutes 20 seconds to retreive all of our 75m of rode, our Maxwell will complete the task in 2 minutes 40 seconds. Both have 1,000watt motors. I can assure you the difference is noticeable. With a 5 minute retrieval time I would not consider trying to retreive the chain when threatened by a dragging yacht and I can understand why others might also not consider it. With a retrieval speed of twice that of the Muir its an option. I'd rather have the option than not.

I note the comment of those that Med moor, we don't have a nearby Meditterranean so our experience is limited to nothing - but there does seem a consensus in favour of - the need for speed.

But each to their own.

With our Maxwell our chain does not tower, the windlass does not jamb - I would buy another Maxwell, I would not touch another Muir (and Muir is Australian)

Jonathan
 
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Little Dorrit

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A boat ahead of you dragging it's anchor... that's an egregious situation to be in. I think my first instinct would be to get the engine on, fenders out and use the fog horn to alert the other boat although obviously every situation will be different.
 

dunedin

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I don't know where you anchor but we find there is the occasional seaweed on the chain, that it is better to remove, rather than it sitting in the locker smothered with the rest of the chain. We find we need to stop and start the retrieval - it depends on what is brought up, whether the chain runs in straight over the roller and does not slide to one side etc.
The voice of experience!
We recently fitted a wireless remote, primarily for the bow thruster when solo (a fantastic improvement, highly recommended), which can also control the anchor.
When solo it is very useful for starting to drop the anchor in the ideal spot. But very rarely used for lifting, for the reasons Neeves states - need to check for weed, alignment with bow roller, check chain stack etc. The rare times it is used for lifting is if in a very tight spot, can do from shrouds, able to see anchor chain but also get to helm quicker.

Incidentally, one key reason for wanting the wireless connected to the anchor windlass was for backup, as wired controls at the bow (whether buttons or a wired hand control) are prone to failure due to corrosion. Suspect wireless might be more reliable - unless dropped overboard. For the latter I have a ribbon round my neck, but with a safety break in case tangled (which has happened quite a few times, often in guard rails), plus a secondary lanyard clipped to trouser belt loop (very rarely wear oilskins here in Scotland - actually true, not an ironic statement).
 

prv

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As for remotes I’d prefer a remote for the throttle at the bow than a windlass remote where I can’t see the chain!

Same.

Maybe it's different in boats with a deeper chain locker and a better designed bow-roller than mine, but I would never want to be operating this powerful machine from a distance where I couldn't keep a close eye on any potential jams or collisions.

So far I've never had to weigh anchor in a situation where there was an obstacle so close down-wind or down-tide, and the wind or tide so strong, that we'd drift into it between the anchor leaving the bottom and me getting back to the cockpit.

Pete
 
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