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buying scam?

dynamic

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6 Dec 2002
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43
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north wales
I have been approached over the telephone for details of my boat for sale at £150k. A forign guy who claims he is enquiring for someone from Israel, has asked for more details to be E.Mailed to him. He also asked if I was prepared to take part payment in cash! I have told him I have a possible sale at the moment, and he said if the boat was right, his collegue would not haggle the price! Could be genuine but I seem to remember reading something recently about buying scams, but I can't remember were I saw it, any ideas or experiance?


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Dave_Snelson

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16 Oct 2001
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NO Don't even respond. Tell this person that your boat is sold and that the matter is closed. Some of these people are not only extortionists, they are violent. Don't get involved!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Madoc Yacht Club
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk>http://www.madocyachtclub.co.uk</A>
 

Andrew_Fanner

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13 Mar 2002
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ked into poverty by children
H'mm, sounds like someone who has a whole heap of cash obtained from, say, sale of Colombian Nose Candy and reckons that turning it into grp and then selling the grp will clean the powder off the paper.

IMO avoid like the plague...

<hr width=100% size=1>Two beers please, my friend is paying.
 

boatless

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I used to sell boats for a living, and can assure you that buyers come in all shapes and flavours. There is nothing in your post that indicates a scam.

The common buying scam involves a buyer from overseas having a business colleague in your country that owes the buyer a larger sum of money than your boat's asking price. The proposal is that the debtor will give you a draft for the whole debt, would you mind forwarding the balance on to your buyer? Of course, the draft is forged.

So, unless that proposal has been made, I would say that there is a fair chance that this is genuine. Just take the usual precautions on verifying the payment.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.
 

HeadMistress

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9 Sep 2003
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USA
Here's how the scam works: These scam artists scour ads looking for high-ticket items for sale--boats, airplanes, expensive cars, etc...the "buyer" offers the full asking price, sight unseen, and will arrange for a colleague to pick it up. Once you've agreed, he'll then tell you that he owes someone in yet another country a sizeable amount of money, but because of some banking rule in his country he can't send it directly to him, so he wants to add it to his check for your boat and ask you to send it on. Being an honest person, you agree. The "buyer" then sends you what appears to be a bank check for the whole amount...and that "bank check" is so good that it can fool any bank into believing it's genuine. But it's not...neither the account nor even the bank it's supposedly drawn on exist. By the time it bounces, you've already sent the "extra" money on...which, by that time, has gone through so many offshore accounts that it's untraceable. You never hear from the 'Buyer" again...he never claims your boat, and any further attempt to contact him is useless. But because your bank check that you forwarded for him IS genuine, you're out that much money.

If you hear from him again, just tell him you've already sold the boat. Any efforts to lead him along to try to catch him would be useless 'cuz they know how to cover their tracks.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 

HeadMistress

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Boatless, there are two red flags in this one: 1. the buyer only wanted to see details to know if the boat was "right" ...no mention that either he or his "client" would ever want to see the boat before buying it. 2. His colleague wouldn't haggle price.

Scammers always offer full price, sight unseen. Asking for details is just a smoke screen to appear legitimate.

Asking about part payment in cash may or may not be another red flag...did he mean hard currency, or a check for a much larger amount than is usual for a down payment?

You could be right that he's a legitimate buyer...but my money is on a scam. Just about everyone I know who's listed a boat for sale on the internet or in any national (on your side of the pond, it might have to be international) publication has been approached in just this manner.

<hr width=100% size=1>Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
 

yachtbits

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21 Nov 2001
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282
Location
Suffolk
Also be aware of the new money laudering rules introduced by HMCE. They only apply to businesses. But if you have chartered your boat in the past, they may apply them to you!

I don't know all the details but they apply to cash transactions of over £10K.

details are on the www.hmce.gov.uk

kev

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtbits.co.uk>http://www.yachtbits.co.uk</A>
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrics & electronics
 

boatless

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Headmistress, I can see your point, but I've sold new and secondhand boats to people who have paid entirely in cash, and out of all buyers at least 30% don't try to negotiate the price down. I've spoken to people at exhibitions who you'd never in a million years think would want a boat. A boy of about ten who said he was looking on behalf of his father. Father bought a 37ft sailing boat on his son's say so - without seeing it himself. An illiterate pig farmer, stank the boat out, bought two 42ft trawler yachts, one for UK one for Med. Builder who bought a 33ft sailing boat with cash in the metaphorical (large) brown envelope - not sure that his wife knew about the boat).

Just making the point that I would entertain any buyer up until the point that something concrete gives him away.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by boatless on 31/03/2004 10:46 (server time).</FONT></P>
 

Kevin

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27 Sep 2003
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it varies, sometimes minute to minute
Surely these scams only work if the receiver of the forged payment passes on the further money before the forged cheque /draft has been honoured. surely no body these days passes on goods or cash without the payment they have received being completely cleared into their account! even to the point that once cleared remove the cash from that account so it cant be grabbed back should any problem arise. Even if its cash thats been handed over I bank it before releasing the goods so that its all been ok'd by the bank and cleared.

If a prospective purchaser doesnt agree to that then tell them to clear off. thats how i operate.

kevin
 

boatless

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Kevin

I'm with you on this.

Apparently (according to the internet, so it must be true?) a draft can be accepted by a bank - but can still 'bounce'. The forgeries can be quite good, and will fool a bank - until it gets to the originator.

So if given a draft I would now require my bank to check it completely, and give me a written guarantee, before handing over title. About time the banks did something useful (rant coming on).

Secondly, if it were one of these scams (and I don't think one can say it is on the evidence so far), you could almost guarantee that a draft handed over for an excess amount as described above, will be dodgy.

<hr width=100% size=1>my opinion is complete rubbish, probably.
 

dynamic

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6 Dec 2002
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north wales
thanks to everyone for your imput,needs some thought but I wouldn't part with anything before complete payment cleared.

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gjgm

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14 Mar 2002
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London
it relates to cheques drawn on foreign banks. Because of the substantial time lag in actually clearing the cheque in some countries, your bank in UK will usually credit your account with the funds. However, when some weeks later the foreign branch bounces the cheque, your UK bank will take the money back from you. So the scams can work because the UK person thinks that because his UK bank has credited the funds, he is home and dry, and so makes a valid payment out of his account..... the scam expoits what you might consider a quirk in UK banking.
Incidentally, you dont need to attend more than 15 seconds of a money laudering course (prevention of, I hasten to add !) before the word BOAT come up ten times....

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TwoStroke

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On the face of it, something smells a little fishy - although I could say that about half my clients. Would probably e-mail them and see what response comes.

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PhilF

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In a state
It is also a crime not to report suspected money laundering activity, so beware

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Kevin

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it varies, sometimes minute to minute
I agree with you on the excess amount on the draft it seems dodgy from the outset. if it was an honest request id tell the purchaser to sort out his own financial dealings with his mate or whoever he professes to owing the money to, why on earth would anybody accept this situation and fall for it.

like most scams its carelessness and dare i say over eagerness that allows these scams to work especially one so simple as the one mentioned here, this one reminds me of that email scam where you send your bank details etc etc and they promise to release $30 million into your account due to the president being shot- how many times can this president be shot! ive had emails dating back 4 years! admittedly there are others far greater thought out and far harder to see than this at the end of the day I only trust myself and blood relatives.

kevin
 

JerryHawkins

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4 Sep 2001
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Plymouth
I once received a cheque drawn on a Canadian bank. When I paid this in to my UK account I got a receipt that stated that although the funds would appear in my account within a few days, it could take up to 3 weeks for them to get the money from Canada. If at this point the cheque was not honoured then the money would be taken back out of my account. If I spent the money in the intervening period, I did so at my own risk!

So, if you are tempted to proceed (and I wouldn't personally), warn your purchaser that you will require one month from presenting the draft to your bank (and confirmation from them that all is OK) before releasing boat.


Cheers,

Jerry

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itsonlymoney

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21 Jun 2003
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All sounds complete bollocks to me. I would'nt touch this deal with a barge pole. If this is not a scam then it should be !
Ian

<hr width=100% size=1>Play the best game you can with the cards you've been dealt ! ! !
 

pistonbroke

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3 Jun 2002
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Down South
I don't believe you lot sometimes, one post about someone wanting to buy a boat with a wad of cash thrown in, which to me is the norm nowadays, and from this you've deduced he's a "drug smuggling, money laundering, murdering, swindling scam artist".

Give it a try, talking to him can't do you any harm.

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Nat

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28 Jan 2004
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London / Spains Costa Blanca
Just get the money TT,d stops all the forged draft worries. Ive been on the end of a forged draft scam and only sussed it at the last moment, They turned up with a draft which I checked with the issuing bank. then they went away saying they needed more time to think about it. they returned 3 days later but seemed edgy when I rechecked it with the bank they told me it had been cancelled, they had copied it then cancelled it. Electronic transfers should stop all your worries,Dont give them your acc details let your bank deal with their bank. Just dont part till the cleared funds are safely in your account.

<hr width=100% size=1>2655 ! You can tell me, I'm a Docter !
 
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