Broom Sedan 35 1978. Gearboxes. Advice suggestions.

[oldgit]

Chum has 1978 Broom Sedan with original gear boxes.
Twin engines are the upright 145 HP Perkins T 6354, the gearboxes are believed to be Borg Warner Velvet drive..
He has a small weep from one box, it could be either the seal inside the bell housing or the one near the flexible coupling. ?
Can anybody confirm the box is likely to be Velvet drive and what model.
Am only familiar with the 71 or 72 fitted to mucha later boat, could this be the same unit.
The weeping box is only producing 5 BAR 75 psi half the pressure of the good gearbox . 10 BAR 145 psi.
Comments and suggestions most welcome before we put a spanner anywhere near it.

 

[scottie]

Is velvet drive not a type and 71 a model ?
not sure that hydraulic leeks self cure so perhaps it a case of out it comes
I am sure that Utube will be your friend

 

[madabouttheboat]

Surely this is a mistake. Are you positive that he doesn't have those troublesome outdrives?

 

[tillergirl]

My 6354 is a Velvet 72C. 110-150 lbf/in2 (7.73-10.35 kgf/cm2 pressure at 150-165F. Want a pdf manual?

 

[oldgit]

My 6354 is a Velvet 72C. 110-150 lbf/in2 (7.73-10.35 kgf/cm2 pressure at 150-165F. Want a pdf manual?

thanks for that , exactly whats needed and have found a PDF online.
There is an identical boat about the same year moored nearbye it has a pair 72 installed , looks to be exactly the same reduction as well.
Optimism that that shaft can be decoupled/dropped back and box can be detached from bell housing and any work done with boat afloat.

 

[scottie]

As you may well know the reduction gears are actually 1.9:1 and 2.1:1 and if you fit the box on the wrong side you go backwards
and regarding suck eggs you are on your own ?

 

[tillergirl]

One of the manual I have includes a troubleshooting (leaks) section.

 

[oldgit]

Surely this is a mistake. Are you positive that he doesn't have those troublesome outdrives?

Shaftdrives.
Arrghh, gearbox has been in the boat for 43 years untouched apart from changing the fluid. Expence, lets call it £10.00 thats about 25 pence per annum
It has been weeping , but boat can still be used without expensive further damage to internal gubbins.
Boat stays in water for repair.
Will need a oil seal. Tools required, screwdriver to remove old seal , block of wood to tap in new one. Cost of oil seal for Velvet Drive ........ wait for it ...... £11.00.
Other gearbox is in good working order and to the knowlege of the present owner has never been worked on.
Outdrives
Where to start, it should have to have been lifted out of the water at least 20 times in that period just for simple servicing alone....... factor in any repair costs and with each and every passing year the horrid unpalatable truth becomes more apparent.
Spect you can also add a least a couple of semi rebuilds in there, before an owner finally admits defeat and then dumps the boat on some totally unaware newbie, about to learn an expensive lesson.

QED.

 

[oldgit]

As you may well know the reduction gears are actually 1.9:1 and 2.1:1 and if you fit the box on the wrong side you go backwards
and regarding suck eggs you are on your own ?

seem to recall in 72 the oil pump position decides the way the box rotates ???

 

[tillergirl]

Frankly I can't imagine how anyone would buy a boat with Outdrives! I know I am biased against them but.... I know my wooden boat stayed afloat by dint of cotton and putty but that's a lot better than a bit of 'rubber'.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Where to start, it should have to have been lifted out of the water at least 20 times in that period just for simple servicing alone....... factor in any repair costs and with each and every passing year the horrid unpalatable truth becomes more apparent.
Spect you can also add a least a couple of semi rebuilds in there, before an owner finally admits defeat and then dumps the boat on some totally unaware newbie, about to learn an expensive lesson.

What, no annual anode change, no annual antifoul, no annual checking of cutlass and rudder bearings. I don't think an annual lift is the preserve of the outdrive boat. Quite the reverse in fact. I could dry out to change my anodes on any tide for free.

I must also be very overdue for a complete outdrive removal and rebuild. 22 years and counting with nothing but regular maintenance.
In that time I have witnessed first hand, and mentioned on here before, about an almost new boat with shaftdrives that had double gearbox failure and a bill that would nearly buy my boat. In fact the bill would probably have bought numerous brand new outdrives to keep in stock should mine eventually cause a problem.

Then there is the fuel savings. I suspect thousands in the years I have been running an outdrive boat, but then I do lots of miles and am happy to open the throttles as the fuel consumption isn't as scary as a smoky old tub on twin shafts.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Frankly I can't imagine how anyone would buy a boat with Outdrives! I know I am biased against them but.... I know my wooden boat stayed afloat by dint of cotton and putty but that's a lot better than a bit of 'rubber'.

Each to their own, but rubber is preferable to me than cotton and putty. And don't even get me started on wooden boat maintenance. I am glad that people do look after them, as they are wonderful things, but I view them like I do an elephant, nice to look at, but I wouldn't want to own one

 

[tillergirl]

You don't have to replace the cotton and putty every year! And painting topsides is a lot quicker than all that nonsense polishing.

 

[oldgit]

What, no annual anode change, no annual antifoul, no annual checking of cutlass and rudder bearings. I don't think an annual lift is the preserve of the outdrive boat. Quite the reverse in fact. I could dry out to change my anodes on any tide for free.

I must also be very overdue for a complete outdrive removal and rebuild. 22 years and counting with nothing but regular maintenance.
In that time I have witnessed first hand, and mentioned on here before, about an almost new boat with shaftdrives that had double gearbox failure and a bill that would nearly buy my boat. In fact the bill would probably have bought numerous brand new outdrives to keep in stock should mine eventually cause a problem.

Then there is the fuel savings. I suspect thousands in the years I have been running an outdrive boat, but then I do lots of miles and am happy to open the throttles as the fuel consumption isn't as scary as a smoky old tub on twin shafts.

Find me a defender of outdrives and incredibly there will always be a pair of the things hanging off the back of their boat.
Find me a boat owner who prefers shafts and invariably there will be an ex owner of an outdrive boat counting his blessings

Where you stand, I once stood . Where I am , you will one day be . Anon.
Its all just a matter of time.

 

[madabouttheboat]

Find me a defender of outdrives and incredibly there will always be a pair of the things hanging off the back of their boat.
Find me a boat owner who prefers shafts and invariably there will be an ex owner of an outdrive boat counting his blessings

Where you stand, I once stood . Where I am , you will one day be . Anon.
Its all just a matter of time.

I know you don't like to be wrong, but in this case you are. I have previously owned shaft drive boats.

 

[oldgit]

I know you don't like to be wrong, but in this case you are. I have previously owned shaft drive boats.

Have now cleaned up and inspected the suspect gearbox. It appears the leak is on top of the box somewhere around the oil cooler and hose couplings.
Further investigation ongoing , all afloat and in the comfort of the cabin of course .
Total cost so far. Firstly a pain in the neck then several cups of tea and finally 5 litres of engine cleaner.

 

[tillergirl]

Let us hope it is just an issue of tightening the couplings.