Slowtack
Well-known member
No problem............BJ will just tell them to get over it
Bridge to Portpatrick
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Fascadale
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Deeply excited though I am by the thought of a fixed link between Ireland and Scotland I feel that a more wholistic and comprehensive solution is required. Yes Ireland should be connected to Scotland but why stop there?
Were the Forth Clyde Ship Canal finally built (proposed in 1910 I think) The Forth and Clyde Ship Canal on JSTOR could the new Brexit busting Irish superferries not run from Dublin via Larne and Edinburgh directly to the continent? The reunited European Ireland linked to the independent European Scotland and onto the European mainland without having to inconvenience our friends in the south by cluttering their roads and polluting their air?
Or, if you insist on a fixed link then could that link not be just part of a scheme to reconnect the Celtic Arc to Europe? Perhaps a spur off the East Coast mainline at Dunbar for Amsterdam?
Were the Forth Clyde Ship Canal finally built (proposed in 1910 I think) The Forth and Clyde Ship Canal on JSTOR could the new Brexit busting Irish superferries not run from Dublin via Larne and Edinburgh directly to the continent? The reunited European Ireland linked to the independent European Scotland and onto the European mainland without having to inconvenience our friends in the south by cluttering their roads and polluting their air?
Or, if you insist on a fixed link then could that link not be just part of a scheme to reconnect the Celtic Arc to Europe? Perhaps a spur off the East Coast mainline at Dunbar for Amsterdam?
dgadee
Well-known member
'Irish Superferries' indeed. Stena took off the fast catamaran and put on old, slow, badly repainted ships and called the ships "Superfast VII" etc. And they still charge a fortune to cross that short bit of sea.
I like that article. It points out the need for rapid military mobilization and that the Forth and Clyde Ship Canal could have served us well in time of war. It may be there is even now a need to protect ourselves from potential English attack. They have a history of invading Northern and Western peoples. We will have to plan that the bridge/tunnel/tube/causeway can handle armoured tanks etc.. Not sure I would rely on the Europeans (once again, there is history from the so called, 'auld alliance') so we can cut that bit of the connection out.
JumbleDuck
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The Solway - Tyne Canal I referred to has been seriously proposed a few times. I have read that the Newcastle - Carlisle railway runs along more-or-less a surveyed canal route (not that there is much choice) and there seem to have been plans in the 30s. As well as more recently. The real killer has always been the Solway, which is so shallow at its east end that monumungous amounts of dredging would be needed, continuously.
claymore
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Fascinated by the whole nonsense of it. Why bother with a bridge when we could dam the blasted channel and stick a gate in somewhere in the middle to speed the tide up a bit, then stick a few turbines down there somehow and generate enough electrickery for the whole planet?
I'd also suggest a marina by the gate which could offer tea, coffee and meals which would to some extent counter the argument for towing boats up the M6/M74 as the seaward passage would have a service station and would save having to raise and lower the mast etc blah blah blah
I'd also suggest a marina by the gate which could offer tea, coffee and meals which would to some extent counter the argument for towing boats up the M6/M74 as the seaward passage would have a service station and would save having to raise and lower the mast etc blah blah blah
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If we think about the developments in technology in the a couple of life times and apply that rate of change to the time scale that the bridge / tunnel building will start, then compare to the environmental damage being done to the planet, we will be arguing whether goat skin or cow skin is best for the coracle to reach that place that appears out of the mist from time to time.
While it is possible, I don't see the economic reason for it to happen, this is ferry territory, not mass movement between a large, population dense island and the continent. The ferry to EU from the River Forth was never economical, this bridge / tunnel idea is even less so.
While it is possible, I don't see the economic reason for it to happen, this is ferry territory, not mass movement between a large, population dense island and the continent. The ferry to EU from the River Forth was never economical, this bridge / tunnel idea is even less so.
dgadee
Well-known member
Say 5 million in Ireland and NI are in reach of a high speed link via the north channel. 50,000 live in Caithness, Sutherland and the Black Isle. They got Kessock at £150 million in today's money. Multiply that by 100 and you get £15 billion - around the same cost per person as Kessock. I am sure it will happen, if not in my lifetime. Or Johnsons or Lumley's.
JumbleDuck
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It's not really a Scotland - NI link; it's a UK - Ireland link or even an EU - Ireland link.
A TGV-style train should be able to do London to Carlisle in 2 hours at most. Another 45 minutes to Belfast, another 45 minutes to Dublin, all including stops. Three and a half hours - maybe even three - from London to Dublin by train would be seriously competitive with air, even if air is still possible in fifty years' time. Paris to Dublin in five hours isn't inconceivable.
The best we can hope for as a local benefit is a cycle lane from Portpatrick to Donaghadee.
claymore
Well-known member
I realise that Joanna was fairly keen on the garden bridge - I never realised she had interests this far north.....
Fascadale
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The august lady has recently been reconnoitring and surveying the route options in person. Joanna Lumley's Home Sweet Home - Travels in my Own Land - Series 1 - Episode 2
ProDave
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And a few years later, the people of Sutherland and Caithness also got the Dornoch bridge to complete the link.
awol
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And what about Fife - 2 rail bridges and 3 road bridges ?
dgadee
Well-known member
That picture of Joanna with two blokes reminds me of a club in Zaragoza that a Spanish law professor took me to. Topless Spaniards in kilts flaunting their nether parts. Scottish culture has travelled far and wide.
dgadee
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Measly £29 million (at today's prices). That would just pay for the cycle link from Portpatrick to the Dee.
JumbleDuck
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All you need to do for similar treatment is to build a nuclear power station and a royal castle in Donaghadee.
dgadee
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We may pass on a post-Dounreay solution: "The site of a Scottish nuclear power facility should be available for other uses in 313 years' time, according to a new report."
What Royals are left over after Edward and Sophie have moved to Edinburgh? What about that Andrew boyo. He seems to have gone quiet for some reason.
ProDave
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Oh and I missed out the Cromarty bridge. Without which the Kessock bridge would ONLY have served the Black Isle.
dgadee
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Kessock: £150 million
Cromarty: £25 million
Dornoch: £29 million
Multiply that by 100 ** and you get quite a lot of money. All for getting to Wick! Which is not as nice as Donaghadee, I have to say (though it has a very good museum and Donaghadee's maritime one is still an idea).
Edit: we won't add the upgrading costs of the A9. It will just make the Londoners demand more for their Crossrails.
** See post #87.
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jamie N
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And quite right too!
Alicatt
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Oh the loss of that ferry was harsh, we used it 3 or 4 times a year on average, when it closed it was back to the good old DFDS Ijmuden-Newcastle route.
Hey nowt wrong wi Week, even the Norse only called it an inlet (Vik = bay or inlet)
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