Bow thruster for Beneteau Oceanis 323 Clipper

[RogS]

......further to dunedin's suggestion.

These look a handy option for a cruising boat with your constraints. You might even consider putting one aft of the keel as a stern thruster:

EX55 Singel 12V thruster - Side-Power



.

Thanks Doug/ Dunedin. I had looked at these and will look again. Hopefully they do not flex the hull during use or normal sailing. I wouldn't want cracking down there! However, I suppose there is a similar risk for a through-hull tube thruster.

 

[Neeves]

I'd attach a short strop from one 'hole' in the toe rail to another hole - say 2-3 holes down. Attach the strop as a bowline. Do this at roughly the middle of the toe rail (at that amidships fairlead) The distance between the 'holes' will spread the load. Attach 'my' mooring line - the long one with the bowline in the middle - to the short strop (use a shackle or a carabiner). now you have the mooring line attached, roughly amidships (as if it were attached to a horn cleat). If you want to use this device permanantly then you need to watch for chafe at the holes (which tend to be sharp).

Take both ends to the stern, port side. As you kiss the pontoon with the fenders on the port side, with yacht moving astern (under momentum - not engine ), step off, onto pontoon holding both ends of my long mooring rope and surge the rope through the amid ships cleat, on the pontoon, just keep the yacht's fenders kissing the pontoon. You will need to lock the tiller amidships. You will finish up with the yacht lying along the pontoon secured by you, holding the mooring line, tight onto the ponton secured by one line only - secure that line take the other line and secure bow or stern, come back release amidships line and secure stern or bow. The tidy up - which might mean using different mooring lines completely.

I know sounds daunting - have fenders on the starboard side - you will get it wrong - but good, clean, fenders will do no harm (that's what they are for). You actually don't need to deploy fenders on the port, or windward side, as the wind is blowing you off, you can deploy them later and if they are deployed they reduce the space you have to play with Those big round spherical fenders are great - but take up oodles of space between you and the pontoon.

The tension you apply, to the mooring lines to control the yacht is minimal (a grown roughly fit man can 'pull' his own weight). If the toe rail or track cannot take a sideways load of, say 80kg, I'd really worry (so don't worry).


Its easy to throw money at a problem, as long as you have a big fat wallet. One day a problem will occur that money cannot solve, because you are alone, something goes wrong and there is no-one about whom you can pay. It may seem harsh but make the mistakes close to home - its how we all learn. I hope it never happens but one day you might need those close quarter manouvering skills to retrieve an unconscious MOB. I've only had one serious MOB - it crystallises your mind and chills your heart. I would not wish it on anyone.

Jonathan

 

[Concerto]

RogS I would suggest having midship cleats fitted. They must have been omitted from the build as a cost saving measure and I cannot understand why such an important feature was dropped. This is making your short finger more difficult to berth to. Check with your owners association to see if the deck was reinforced ready for a midship cleat - I expect it was. Then it will be an easy job to fix a cleat.

About 25 years ago my late parents had a Moody Eclipse 43 and that had a bow thruster fitted. Their marina berth was a box mooring between piles. They had to reverse in and a strong cross wind made it almost impossible due to the tight turning circle required. Many times the bow thruster was not strong enough to control the bow and we required the use of the marina launch to keep the bow from blowing off. Weighing in at about 14 tons, pushing off was not an option. We did try warping off an opposite pile but got told off as we started moving it. So my experience of bow thrusters is they do not cope with all conditions.

In many marinas, they may suggest using an easier berth and they will move your boat to your berth when conditions are better. It is always worth asking for help before you need it and can save a lot of problems and expense.

 

[sailorman]

Great idea - thanks Sailorman. Hopefully sailtrack strong enough for a lateral pull ?

Risk it

 

[sailorman]

RogS I would suggest having midship cleats fitted. They must have been omitted from the build as a cost saving measure and I cannot understand why such an important feature was dropped. This is making your short finger more difficult to berth to. Check with your owners association to see if the deck was reinforced ready for a midship cleat - I expect it was. Then it will be an easy job to fix a cleat.

About 25 years ago my late parents had a Moody Eclipse 43 and that had a bow thruster fitted. Their marina berth was a box mooring between piles. They had to reverse in and a strong cross wind made it almost impossible due to the tight turning circle required. Many times the bow thruster was not strong enough to control the bow and we required the use of the marina launch to keep the bow from blowing off. Weighing in at about 14 tons, pushing off was not an option. We did try warping off an opposite pile but got told off as we started moving it. So my experience of bow thrusters is they do not cope with all conditions.

In many marinas, they may suggest using an easier berth and they will move your boat to your berth when conditions are better. It is always worth asking for help before you need it and can save a lot of problems and expense.

Some yrs ago an elderly Dutch couple came into The Montgomery Dock in a Contest 43 ?? no thruster, came into the berth stern to after picking up the bow mooring By. Just using prop walk to advantage.
Nxt day a young Dutch coupe cane in with same boat + thruster, the Older couple knew their boat, the young couple didnt.

 

[Sandy]

Jonathan/ Concerto/ Sandy and all
Thanks for all your suggestions. I do seem to have opened up a debate that has lots of different views!

RogS, EVERTHING gets debated here! There are lots of ways to do things, different things work for different people. I really do recommend Duncan's book (and he is a lovely chap if you ever meet him). There are a number of videos with the book, some are public e.g.

, I have spoken to Duncan about the music!

I have a similar finger pontoon and drop a loop over the cleat at the end of the pontoon and use that as a spring. OK I have a centre cleat onboard, buth the other end could be round your cockpit winch. I find that if things are done slowly, most of my maneuvering in the marina is done out of gear, but with steerage,

Good luck with the practice

 

[greeny]

I have a 323 2006 version. Lift keel, twin rudders which can make berthing a challenge in certain conditions. I've never felt a bow thruster was necessary although there are times when one would have made things easier. Practice makes perfect (well almost) and is a lot cheaper and probably easier. The water tank would need moving but where to I don't know. I need all the stowage in the saloon for other things and more weight at the stern is not going to help with boat trim.
Mine had a centre cleat fitted both sides from new and it looks a simple retrofit. It does not get in the way or clutter the sidedecks. Easy access from internal saloon to fit it. I'll double check for re-enforcement when I'm there tomorrow and get back to you.
Would photos help?

 

[Norman_E]

Sandy, thanks for your reply. Do you have any designs or suggestions? It’s a tight marina berth, very tricky in certain winds.

Don't expect a thruster to be much help when the wind is strong, its a question of relative forces, and the wind is often the stronger force. That said the under hull thruster in a streamlined pod at least puts the force where it does most good, i.e. as far forward and as low down as possible. It will have another, possibly unwanted, effect. It will move the boats centre of lateral resistance forward, though I don't know how much effect that will have on the balance of the boat when sailing.

 

[wully1]

I owned an earlier 10m Oceanis and more recently an 11m Hanse. One of the few places I felt a bow thruster would have been useful was on the canal at Copenhagen which has significantly less than 10m width between moored boats on either side.

In Christianshavn through the funky lift bridge? I can only imagine you’d needa bow thruster to turn round in there?

Maybe you should get some instruction as well

 

[fredrussell]

Utter tosh...
...warping is not really an option.

...A bow thruster has limited use,

Of course warping is not really an option, the point I was making is that that is how it used to be done until engines came along and made manoeuvring a whole lot easier. Same as bow thrusters have a few decades on.

 

[pvb]

Utter tosh...

I'm more than happy to admit taking more than one chunk of gelcoat out of the bow. I am currently hold a berth in a marina where Princess Yachts finish off their boats prior to handing them over to the owners. I pass boats with the value of between £50 million and £100 million depending on what is going out this week between my berth and the exit - warping is not really an option.

Now that is "utter tosh"! If you have no idea what they cost, don't guess.

 

[Norman_E]

Twin rudders are the work of the devil when it comes to close quarters manoevering, because you can't use the trick of giving the engine a burst of revs in forward gear against a hard over rudder to kick the stern sideways.

 

[Sandy]

Now that is "utter tosh"! If you have no idea what they cost, don't guess.

Actually, I do know how much they cost and am not guessing. The value of the vessels depends on what is being finished.

 

[lustyd]

You obviously confused matters by mentioning Princess who sell comparatively cheap boats compared to the ones you describe. Presumably those are ships though, which would suffer zero damage from your little boat. Even a large Princess is metal these days so wouldn't suffer damage, and they're nowhere near that cost.

 

[greeny]

Twin rudders are the work of the devil when it comes to close quarters manoevering, because you can't use the trick of giving the engine a burst of revs in forward gear against a hard over rudder to kick the stern sideways.

Need to keep the hull speed up to keep steerage until the last second then a quick burst astern to stop her. Prop walk still works though.

 

[RogS]

I have a 323 2006 version. Lift keel, twin rudders which can make berthing a challenge in certain conditions. I've never felt a bow thruster was necessary although there are times when one would have made things easier. Practice makes perfect (well almost) and is a lot cheaper and probably easier. The water tank would need moving but where to I don't know. I need all the stowage in the saloon for other things and more weight at the stern is not going to help with boat trim.
Mine had a centre cleat fitted both sides from new and it looks a simple retrofit. It does not get in the way or clutter the sidedecks. Easy access from internal saloon to fit it. I'll double check for re-enforcement when I'm there tomorrow and get back to you.
Would photos help?

Thanks Sailorman. Yes photos would be great. The present solution is that I can’t hit anything as I am not allowed access to her due to lockdown!!

 

[ashtead]

It would seem that if the OP wishes to install a thruster a drop down version might be preferable if that were possible but presumably there are yards out there who have fitted a Quick thruster or other make and can advise on suitable modifications for the vessel. I just wonder if the cost makes retro fitting worthwhile though compared to changing vessel?

 

[richardbayle]

You could always consider an external bow thruster:
E-Thrust Overview | Yacht Thruster - Bow Thrusters & Stern Thrusters
I agree with those members who say ignore the nay sayers, if you want one and it helps take away the stress of sailing, especially parking, then buy a bow thruster
Didn't have one on my 323 but did on my Hunter 41 and now I've acquired an old 36, with a tiller! Getting silly in my old age

 

[sailorman]

It would seem that if the OP wishes to install a thruster a drop down version might be preferable if that were possible but presumably there are yards out there who have fitted a Quick thruster or other make and can advise on suitable modifications for the vessel. I just wonder if the cost makes retro fitting worthwhile though compared to changing vessel?

An egg whisk in a yacht with a shallow forefoot is not going to work very efficiently, a couple of boat hooks might be an alternative

 

[ashtead]

A drop down version is at least lower than a tunnel so might work better. Small Hanse have them I believe .