Beefing up a Halcyon 27. Your ideas ?

[SailorAleksi]

Hi all ! I posted this question on OYCOA website but it isn't very active. Since I saw that Halcyon 27 is a well known yacht around here too, I allow myself to copy and past my question here. I hope this is ok, and we can get some interesting ideas out of it here it goes :

Hi all !
H27 is a seaworthy, strong little boat. We all know that here, don't we ?
I don't open this topic about the classic problems one might find on a H27, many topics cover that already. I'm cruising around with mine, regular atlantic cruising really, and she does perfectly. Well, I'm so much in love with my boat .
But here is my question, partly curiosity, partly dream, but also partly real potential futur project.
I'd like to bring my boat in remote places, very far north and south, with potential serious weather for some extent of time.
Before that, I want to make her bulletproof, considering capsizing being a serious (non desirable) option, in between others. What would you guys do ? This is an open question so fare, I hope for some reactions . I'll share my thoughts once the brainstorming get started a little.
Cheers, Alex.

 

[halcyon]

Hi all ! I posted this question on OYCOA website but it isn't very active. Since I saw that Halcyon 27 is a well known yacht around here too, I allow myself to copy and past my question here. I hope this is ok, and we can get some interesting ideas out of it here it goes :

Hi all !
H27 is a seaworthy, strong little boat. We all know that here, don't we ?
I don't open this topic about the classic problems one might find on a H27, many topics cover that already. I'm cruising around with mine, regular atlantic cruising really, and she does perfectly. Well, I'm so much in love with my boat .
But here is my question, partly curiosity, partly dream, but also partly real potential futur project.
I'd like to bring my boat in remote places, very far north and south, with potential serious weather for some extent of time.
Before that, I want to make her bulletproof, considering capsizing being a serious (non desirable) option, in between others. What would you guys do ? This is an open question so fare, I hope for some reactions . I'll share my thoughts once the brainstorming get started a little.
Cheers, Alex.

Hi, my H27 was very modified by previous owners for Atlantic cruise, part before, part in the USA after arrival due to weather damage.

Where are you based ?

Brian

 

[SailorAleksi]

Hi ! Thanks for your answer.
I am not based anywhere really, currently in Portugal, bound for the other side I guess.
What about those modifications you are speaking about ? And your thoughts about it ?
Thanks again !

 

[Bajansailor]

The American S/Y 'Atom' is a Pearson Triton 28 which is very similar to the Halcyon (except that the Halcyon has a transom hung rudder) - James Baldwin has written lots of articles about the modifications he has done to his boat to make her safer offshore in heavy weather.

Atom Voyages - The Sailboat Atom

 

[halcyon]

Hi ! Thanks for your answer.
I am not based anywhere really, currently in Portugal, bound for the other side I guess.
What about those modifications you are speaking about ? And your thoughts about it ?
Thanks again !

Rather a long list, from heavily reinforced bow fittings & mast support, smaller cockpit with lazarette, 2 x 4 inch cockpit drains through transom, bolted through windows, locking system for washboards and hatch in case of knockdown, now 2 birth plus pilot, large chart table. large galley with gimbled full cooker, extra storage, self steering triple stitched main with other mods, modified sail handling, that's a few from memory.

They had problems crossing to the US, heavy weather, but after the updates they went down to the Caribbean, then came back via the Azores, Gib, Med and back through Biscay with no trouble during a 2/3 years trip.

Brian

 

[SailorAleksi]

Thanks both for your instructives answers.
Brian, do you know what kind of problem did they encouter ?
Their modifications completly make sens to me though. Specially speaking about mast step, cockpit drains, and bow fittings. For this last point, I would very much like to know what've been done on yours, both on deck and below deck.
Also and to the point, my big interrogation is how strong the u-bolts chainplates are ? If we follow the rule of thumb, each chainplate should be able to take the boat displacement. I have no idea of how to assess that... Would any modification of the chainplates make sense if we speak of prolonged heavy weather conditions ?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

My Dad had a Halcyon 27 from new back in the 60s. As you note, very solidly built, and very capable.
However, I don't think you need to worry about capsizing, unless rolled by a wave. The reason I say that is that they have quite slack bilges and a high ballast ratio. The result is that as the wind blows harder, they lean over further until the wind spills from the sails. This keeps stresses on the rigging low, and makes capsize unlikely. We were once caught in a very nasty squall, and she simply lay over until the pressure went out of the sails. They normally sail with the lee rail under anyway, and it's not at all unusual for the lee windows to be fish viewing ports!

I think I'd be looking at installing strong points for a series drogue so that in heavy weather she'd keep her stern to the sea, rather than worrying too much about the rigging attachments.

 

[Wansworth]

My Dad had a Halcyon 27 from new back in the 60s. As you note, very solidly built, and very capable.
However, I don't think you need to worry about capsizing, unless rolled by a wave. The reason I say that is that they have quite slack bilges and a high ballast ratio. The result is that as the wind blows harder, they lean over further until the wind spills from the sails. This keeps stresses on the rigging low, and makes capsize unlikely. We were once caught in a very nasty squall, and she simply lay over until the pressure went out of the sails. They normally sail with the lee rail under anyway, and it's not at all unusual for the lee windows to be fish viewing ports!

I think I'd be looking at installing strong points for a series drogue so that in heavy weather she'd keep her stern to the sea, rather than worrying too much about the rigging attachments.

My dad also bought a new halcyon from Royston,very good price and very good value,as an aside he had a terrible thrumming noise at anchour which the rigger could not solve,father offered ten quid to solve it,living down on an early cruise I lept up and sail topping lift and indeed it was,he bowled down the boom with the main sheet causing the topping lift to thrum.........he never gave me the ten quid?

 

[SailorAleksi]

Hi AntarticPilot. Thank you very much for helping out
All what you just said about H27 is very true, giving her also this "raither tender" reputation.

 

[halcyon]

Thanks both for your instructives answers.
Brian, do you know what kind of problem did they encouter ?
Their modifications completly make sens to me though. Specially speaking about mast step, cockpit drains, and bow fittings. For this last point, I would very much like to know what've been done on yours, both on deck and below deck.
Also and to the point, my big interrogation is how strong the u-bolts chainplates are ? If we follow the rule of thumb, each chainplate should be able to take the boat displacement. I have no idea of how to assess that... Would any modification of the chainplates make sense if we speak of prolonged heavy weather conditions ?

The deck under the bow roller / forestay mounting is bent up around 5 degree, due extreme loading on trip to US. They fitted a long strip from the front face down the front edge of the bow, with a strut inside from forestay anchorage to lower end of the external strip.
Both bulkheads under mast were fitted with a beam over the openings supported by two vertical members. These crossbeams supported two beams inside the boat under the external mast mounting beam. Again this was a mod in US due to very heavy weather on trip over.
Cockpit drains were added again on US arrival, they took a large wave that needed 30 minutes to drain cockpit with standard drain.
I believe rigging was upsized, but chainplates are standard. When I bought her she had baggywrinkle on shrouds to protect sails, also a thick webbing strap across lower shrouds to lean on when working sails at the mast.

It must have proved a solid boat because they were refitting for another circuit, but found a large steel boat on a beach in the Caribbean.

Brian

 

[SailorAleksi]

Hi Brian, very informative thank you. Looks like you got yourself a nice seaworthy H27, congratulation !
Do the cockpit drains exit bellow or above the waterline ?
About the strut for your forestay to the metal strip on the bow, that's exactly what I had in mind as a system when I think about reinforcing chainplates. But I don't know if it is at all necessary or if it would work, thus my questions here.
I'm having hard time to picture myself the mast step strenghtening you describe, do you happen to have any picture ?
Thanks

 

[Wansworth]

Hi Brian, very informative thank you. Looks like you got yourself a nice seaworthy H27, congratulation !
Do the cockpit drains exit bellow or above the waterline ?
About the strut for your forestay to the metal strip on the bow, that's exactly what I had in mind as a system when I think about reinforcing chainplates. But I don't know if it is at all necessary or if it would work, thus my questions here.
I'm having hard time to picture myself the mast step strenghtening you describe, do you happen to have any picture ?
Thanks

Basically you need to stiffen up the area under the mast easiiestis to reinforce the mast bulkhead maybe a solid wood frame all round the opening which can be linked to the hull,that wot my Albin Vega 27 footer had,,bulkheads can flex.

 

[halcyon]

Hi Brian, very informative thank you. Looks like you got yourself a nice seaworthy H27, congratulation !
Do the cockpit drains exit bellow or above the waterline ?
About the strut for your forestay to the metal strip on the bow, that's exactly what I had in mind as a system when I think about reinforcing chainplates. But I don't know if it is at all necessary or if it would work, thus my questions here.
I'm having hard time to picture myself the mast step strenghtening you describe, do you happen to have any picture ?
Thanks

Yes but buried in the computer somewhere, will have a look, if not try and take some for you.

The strap on the bow must be 1 1/2 " x 3/16" x 15"( 40 x 5 x 380 mm ) stainless.

Drains go out above waterline, I keep meaning to put rubber flaps on the transom to stop water coming in from a following sea.



Cockpit side they are behind the old cooker, the bottom level with the hatch to engine and prop shaft.



Sorry for dirty boat, just taken winter covers off.

Brian

 

[PetiteFleur]

I'm not familiar with the Halcyon 27 but you talk about 'U' bolt chain plates, make sure you remove and check them - on my previous Jaguar 27, they suffered badly from crevice corrosion where they went through the deck, caught in time before the mast fell down! I noticed one of the nuts looked as though it could be tightened, tried to and it promptly broke! Replaced with Wichard 'U' bolts which fitted perfectly.

 

[SaltIre]

When I bought my first Sadler 25 there had been a number of rig failures in other boats due to the backstay u-bolt shearing off. I replaced it with a S/S strip through the deck through-bolted onto the transom inside the aft locker. Four big juicy bolts iirc!
I think Sadler had done that upgrade in the Sadler 26.

 

[doug748]

When I bought my first Sadler 25 there had been a number of rig failures in other boats due to the backstay u-bolt shearing off. I replaced it with a S/S strip through the deck through-bolted onto the transom inside the aft locker. Four big juicy bolts iirc!
I think Sadler had done that upgrade in the Sadler 26.

Very interesting to hear. My first channel crossing was on a Sadler 25.

On the way back there was a almighty crack and the backstay tensioner shot past my ear, at the same time the main split from leach to luff. Fortunately the skipper had a habit of hitching the topping lift onto the pushpit and that saved the mast. The U bolt had sheared.

I can see that mast light now, waving a huge arc in the night sky as I was volunteered forward to retrieve the backstay.


.

 

[SaltIre]

I got my Sadler 25 in 1986 and replaced the U bolt pretty soon afterwards. Info was from the Sadler Association.

 

[SailorAleksi]

Hello everybody,
I'm doing regular maintenance of my Halcyon 27 and just finished re-beding the stanchions. As I was doing so, I started wondering about the hull to deck joint. She is through bolted, with a wood rub rail.
From inside, I appear to have some old bolts. Others seems to be coverd in GRP (I only see a bump). And some pretty new ones every 26cm hidden on the outside by wooden plugs in the rubrail. Anybody as an idea of what's going on with all those differents kind of bolts ?

 

[SaltIre]

Perhaps some have been replaced and some not! Still looks incredibly clean!

 

[SailorAleksi]

Hello Saltire, yes she is in very good condition .
I first thought like you. But why do I see the rubrail plugs just behind the new ones and not the others ? And what about those ones cover in GRP ?