Bayliner vs Sealine

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I'm not sure if this is the right area to post this query but we are looking to buy a boat for the Thames.

We have seen a beautiful Sealine S28 as well as some lovely Bayliners. I have some questions for you experienced fellas.

Are there any increased cost implications related to insuring either boat? We are looking at differing lengths from 28ft to 32ft and with diesel twins and petrol singles. As a newbie, but with age on his side, how much more difficult is it to pilot a twin against a single? Also servicing costs issues, are they hugely increased with a twin...sound obvious but perhaps two engines do it easier than one, so less wear, more reliable?

The Sealine seems to be very well finished with good quality fittings....i.e. the door locks don't look as though they will snap at the first sign in change of temperature. Do the Bayliners have the same quality? We are looking at Boats from 1997 onwards.

The other issue is on board heating, dehumidifying......We would like to protect our investment ( we may spend as much as £45,000, a large amount for us) so what are the best methods to allow us to perhaps use the boat up to the late autumn, then to put her to bed over the winter and come back in the spring to a fresh and welcoming cabin

A lot of questions....hope it's not too much
Thanks
Lee
 

rafiki_

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Binliners and Sealines are now part of Brunswick, and massive US business, that includes Mercruiser.

Traditionally Binliners have been built to a strict price in the US, and are in general the entry level boat at any particular size. Therefore the quality of the fittings and finish have not been as good as other manufacturers. Having said this, you will find many happy owners on these forums.

Sealine is the UK boat builder for Brunswick, and in the past have majored on packaging, ie giving the best internal space for any given hull length. While some on these forums will claim Sealin not to be in the same league as Fairline/Princess/Sunseeker, in my view, they have made some great boats, and the S28 is one of them.

With respect to 1 or 2 engines, this will impact price and residual value much more than insurance costs, which are generally quite minor in relation to the major costs of berthing and maintenance. If the Binliner is petrol, then fuel costs and availabiltiy will be a significant running cost.

Rafiki is a twin diesel boat, a size up from the S28 (Sunline 31) but I use less than 1 gallon per hour on a river, and 5-6 gph at wide oen throttle, so relatively economical. Insurance is less than £300 per year.
 

No Regrets

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Not too good for the upper Thames though, both have compromised space, handling and so on due to shape. At that budget there are better boats!

I'm only assuming the boat will be for predominantly non tidal use, as there are few places to moor downstream of Teddington...ignore me if I'm wrong...

Both these boats will invariably have Sterndrives which cost at least £500 every other year to service (each!) versus a Shaft drive which is both more stable at low speeds, and costs virtually nothing to look after.

Each engine will be around £300 pa to maintain in normal terms.

Single sterndrive boats are not at all good for the Upper Thames, and not great if you're going through London either, as they are relatively easily damaged by debris, and with a single engine you're then doomed :)

Stick to more traditional shapes with Shaft drive for non tidal use, most will happily get you to the coast anyway, albeit probably at a lower speed than a sports boat, but will offer a lot more space, comfort and facilities.

Bayliners are not brilliant quality, and as they age, things do start to look a bit jaded, like a cheap kitchen. Quality brands are easier to keep nice for many years.

A very popular price range seems to be around the £30-40k mark, where you can buy a decent boat of 30-34 foot, which is probably optimal on the upper sections, as the mooring and licensing costs are OK and they fit in parking spaces both in terms of length and depth!

Bargain of the week IMHO is charlotte Trood, a Storebro Royal Baltic 31, with twin 148hp Diesels on Shafts. She's £30k, and lovely in terms of condition, accomodation and overall ability up or down the river. See Bray marine sales website for details!
 
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CX54WEK

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We looked at a vast array of 25ft sports boats before buying our current Sealine S23. The Bayliners and Sealines are worlds apart in terms of quality of fit out and quality of fixtures and fittings. Thats not to say the Bayliners are utter rubbish because a lot of people are very happy with their Bayliners, but the Sealine will always be a superior boat and as such will hold it s value better.

Fuel avaliability will be a big issue with a big petrol inboard. Diesel is much more readily avaliable waterside plus for marine use diesels are much more reliable and should last a lifetime. From a longevity point of view direct raw water cooling on petrol engines is a big downside.

Twin engines will always be much easier to handle than a single engined stern driven boat. That said ours is a single and we manage just fine but in a bigger boat twins would be an advantage. Of course that means two engines to service and two drives to service but with a little DIY knowledge they are not rocket science to do yourself and save on labour costs from marine engineers.
 

Andrew_Fanner

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>>>
Bargain of the week IMHO is charlotte Trood, a Storebro Royal Baltic 31, with twin 148hp Diesels on Shafts. She's £30k, and lovely in terms of condition, accomodation and overall ability up or down the river. See Bray marine sales website for details!
>>>

I am in lust already!

Not for nothing are Bayliners rudely nicknamed Binliners, being built to a price rather than a quality. Having said that, you can get a lot of boat for your money although you may find that fixtures and fittings need some tlc to keep them nice, or may be tatty and need a lot of fettling.

Twin engines are inherently easier to manoevre than a single, especially when you need to do a tight turn or go backwards, both of which will be common enough on the river. As for keeping the boat nice and fresh, use helps. Sounds daft but a used boat will be open, you will be on top of any little niggles or spot things that need attention before they become an issue. Otherwise you are probably looking at hardstanding November-April, which may or may not be a part of a mooring package (the actual lift and launch might be extra) together with dehumidifier, tube heaters and so forth.
 

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Thats a good point Andrew.

Beware boats with unusually low hours. Boats like to be used. Sitting around, in what is a harsh environment, does them no favours. A boat that has been used will more than likely have been well maintained to keep it reliable and in working order.

Look out for boats with a recorded service history and reciepts for the works completed. Maintenance is an important part of owning a boat that can often be overlooked as a boat starts to get on in years. Make sure the stern drives have been serviced on time and had anode, bellows and oil changes on a regular basis. Make sure the engine is serviced on a regular basis.

Before making any purchase ensure you have the boat surveyed. Any surveyer worth his salt should be able to pin point a list of items requiring attention that will save you at least the cost of the survey off the sale price. It could also save you a lot of heart ache in the long run if a boat turns out to be a lemon.
 

watson1959

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Before making any purchase ensure you have the boat surveyed. Any surveyer worth his salt should be able to pin point a list of items requiring attention that will save you at least the cost of the survey off the sale price. It could also save you a lot of heart ache in the long run if a boat turns out to be a lemon.

...couldnt agree more. Having completed the purchase of our first boat a month ago, I can say that the survey (frustrating as the resulting delays in the purchase are) saved me a packet and highlighted very specific areas to adress either in the short or longer-term.
 

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We have a 2005 Bayliner 285 and are very happy with it. I would agree with the other posts that Sealine has higher grade fitting BUT the Bayliners are built to a price point and you get a lot of newer boat for your money. Our insurance is £300 p.a

Ok, maybe it's not the most practical boat for the upper Thames and everyone has different opinions but we wanted modern and as new as we could get. We are also planning to go down to the coast for some months next year. We have a single petrol engine and have found no issues getting petrol. At Thames speeds we use approx 4 litres per hour to give you an idea of running costs. Handling is fine with one engine, however I did search out one with a bow thruster when we brought it and this does prove useful occasionaly!

PM me if you want any more info on the Bayliner.

No Regrets - Charlotte Trood, I agree nice looking boat!
 

CX54WEK

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We have a 2005 Bayliner 285 and are very happy with it. I would agree with the other posts that Sealine has higher grade fitting BUT the Bayliners are built to a price point and you get a lot of newer boat for your money. Our insurance is £300 p.a

Ok, maybe it's not the most practical boat for the upper Thames and everyone has different opinions but we wanted modern and as new as we could get. We are also planning to go down to the coast for some months next year. We have a single petrol engine and have found no issues getting petrol. At Thames speeds we use approx 4 litres per hour to give you an idea of running costs. Handling is fine with one engine, however I did search out one with a bow thruster when we brought it and this does prove useful occasionaly!

PM me if you want any more info on the Bayliner.

No Regrets - Charlotte Trood, I agree nice looking boat!

Better take another mortgage out for the fuel if you are going coastal :D

It will sup a bit more than 4 litres per hour on full tilt.
 

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Lol, that's whay I'm staying on the Thames this year so I can save up my pennies for the outrageous fuel consumption next year!! :D

I agree with the comments about the survey and finding a good example of the boat you want to buy. One of the reasons we purchased the one we have is that it had been looked after so well it looked like new and the owner had every piece of paperwork since he brought it new and all the service history.
 

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The headache continues.....

Well I'd like to thank everyone for the help....so here are where my thoughts are today.
I love the newness and quality of the Sealine 28, but as a 1998 boat that is not surprising, and at £45,000 also to be expected.
My wife also sees herself reclined on the posh and sumptious sofas. However I am still not sure I want to crawl into a cubby hole to sleep, or have all that power under my hands and not be able to give it a chance on the sea.

The "Charlotte Trood" looks to have better space and facilities as well as a more appealing price tag, as well as a more appropriate engine and drive set up. However the interior is a little dated and does not approach the poseur value highly appreciated by "The Missus"

Can we find something in the middle of the two?
 

CX54WEK

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Your best bet is to trawl around the many boatyards looking at everything for sale, then make a judgement as to what suits your needs. Once you have narrowed down your search to a particular model then start to scoure the country for one in the best condition you can find.

The S28 by the way is cheap at £45k.
 

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S28

"The S28 by the way is cheap at £45k. "

I do agree......it has been incredibly well loved by some scrupulous owners.

I think maybe I will have to bite the bullet and buy the S28 especially as what I'm being told is that good boats are going out of the country on a daily basis so choice is limited.
 

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"The S28 by the way is cheap at £45k. "

I do agree......it has been incredibly well loved by some scrupulous owners.

I think maybe I will have to bite the bullet and buy the S28 especially as what I'm being told is that good boats are going out of the country on a daily basis so choice is limited.

If £45k is the asking price you should be able to get it for less than that :D Offer 'em £40k and watch their eyes!

If they accept, you'll get another bite of the price cherry when the survey gives you a bit more negotiating info!
 
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CX54WEK

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The S28 is a very popular boat and will be easy to resell at a later date. But if it isnt what you want why buy it?

And why buy a sea boat if you will be based on the river and dont intend to go to sea? Our S23 is based on the inland system but we have easy access to open water and the sea so that we can use her for her intended purpose. Next week we are setting off from Lincoln and are heading to Southwold and the Norfolk Broads.
 

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Sealine S28

We have looked at a fair few over the last few weeks and this boat stood out. I think I'm struggling to make the jump from a budget of 30 up this this at 45

I know this sounds a little spoilt, but we would like to get some use from the boat this summer and by the time we have surveyed her, been on holiday it will be the end of August and Autumn will be upon us.
 

CX54WEK

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We have looked at a fair few over the last few weeks and this boat stood out. I think I'm struggling to make the jump from a budget of 30 up this this at 45

I know this sounds a little spoilt, but we would like to get some use from the boat this summer and by the time we have surveyed her, been on holiday it will be the end of August and Autumn will be upon us.

Whats a few weeks lost cruising compared to the heart ache caused by buying a lemon thats will cost thousands to put right?

Our purchase from start to finish took four weeks, including having a survey done. Two weeks of this we were on holiday. So it can be done quickly.

A "fair few" boats aint really enough when parting with large sums of cash. You need to look until you cant physically bring yourself to look at more boats :D
 

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Where would you be based on the river? Anywhere downstream of Penton Hook (inclusive) puts tidal waters half a day or less away and with the right tides makes Saturday night in London a possibility and an easy long weekend. I've done Sunbury to Limehouse in around five hours several times without pushing anything too hard. Being willing to cruise after dark and work your own locks makes a big difference.
 

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Have a look at as many boats as possible to find what feels right for you. We looked at lots until in some ways they all seemed to blur into one! Also check silly things like bunk sizes, we are both 6 ft and didn't fit into some. Also picture what you will use the boat for, will friends/family stay, will you just use if for weekends or longer periods. We discounted some boats just beause the galley was tiny and when we considered how we would use this it just didn't work. Our budget also started low and SWMBO was not impressed with some of the 30 year old boats, which is one of the reasons we ended up at our top end :D BUT that's our preference.

Regarding price and what the owner will take make a sensible offer. The boat we have which we only purchased two months ago was immaculate and had only just come on the market, the broker said that the owner wouldn't take an offer. However I thought it was worth a shot and I still negotiated 12% off and the survey turned up no issues apart from low batteries which the owner replaced at his cost. You never know a persons situation as a seller...

If you have the money to hand and find the right boat the entire process can be done quite quickly, there's no reason why you cannot have the boat in 2-3 weeks.
 

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Better take another mortgage out for the fuel if you are going coastal :D

It will sup a bit more than 4 litres per hour on full tilt.

Yes, but there is a real thrill and a real difference doing some high speed coastal trips that is different to the Thames, and you can always throttle back to Thames speed if you must. Every Thames boat should be allowed to exercise its engines every now and again! Go on, find out what "WOT" means"

My "Binliner" off the Needles

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Poole Bay
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Southampton Water on Sunday

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Osbourne Bay

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Southampton water (we are on the outside)

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Don't get me wrong, you will see us on the Thames occasionally for its own experience.

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