Bavaria 34 . 20 years old. Hive mind opinions sought please.

[Wing Mark]

The name is familiar to me, I think I may have sailed on her when she was owned by a sailing school. will have to think about that some more.

Anyway does not mean it's a bad buy and at that price it may well not hang around long.

.

A quick google suggests it was with Solent Boat Charters. Up to at least 2019.
So it could have been quite heavily used and not always by skilled or careful people.
Hence the new engine.
I did a course on a Bav of similar era when it was only a few years old, and you could see that the intensive use was taking its toll.
There are a lot of expensive things on a boat which can wear out in 20 years of commercial use.
Everything from winches to upholstery.
Instead oi the usual blocks seized through lack of use, there might be some actually worn out.
Of course many of them will have been replaced, and the boat will have had a lot of maintenance, but how many jobs will have been quick fixes to fulfil a charter next week?
OTOH, boats in the trade are often looked after professionally by people who've spent a lot of time on boats and don't want a tatty or faulty boat associated with their business.
My experience of the yachting trade (which is mostly a fair while ago now) is that there is a who spectrum of people involved.
It looks pretty good in the pictures, but I've been looking at boats of late, and many are a real disappointment first hand.

Anyone in the market for a boat of this ilk should go and look at it, it could be a bargain, it could be a dog, it could be that some brokers and other people in the trade actually know what they're doing and the price is not far adrift. Talk to the broker, look at some other boats and talk to some other brokers.

One thing I recall from that era, when a lot of Sailing School boats were Bavs, is being told hat some school boats had different specs to 'owners versions'. Possibly smaller sails, even different masts? Smaller winches?
Maybe some parts were stronger as with 'college models' of some racing dinghies I knew about 20 years before that.
Do lots of research.
It's not like buying a mondeo, all used boats are unique.

You'll know that a price is fair when someone else nips in and buys it ahead of you, already happened to me, it's a learning thing.

 

[Tranona]

Washboard is a pain but maybe with a 2 cabin version you can make a bracket to hold in locker .

My 37 had two wooden brackets on the engine bulkhead panel in the aft cabin for the washboard. However I cut mine in 2 split 30 lower and 70 upper so that I could leave the lower in on passage. Makes them easier to stow, although I could still use the brackets.

 

[Tranona]

One thing I recall from that era, when a lot of Sailing School boats were Bavs, is being told hat some school boats had different specs to 'owners versions'. Possibly smaller sails, even different masts? Smaller winches?
Maybe some parts were stronger as with 'college models' of some racing dinghies I knew about 20 years before that.
Do lots of research.

No. They were all the same. I bought my 37 in 2001 and it was a standard 3 cabin version. You are perhaps thinking of the earlier mid 90s boats when they did indeed for a couple of years have a lower spec charter version (Holiday vs Exclusive), but when the range that this 34 comes from was introduced in 1998/9 they were all the same. The 34 was the boat to have. That was what I wanted, but when I ordered in October 2000 they were sold out until spring 2002, whereas the 37 was available for spring 2001 - and at very little more money. Good decision as it turned out an excellent charter boat.

Suspect this boat was refurbished in 2019 when it left charter as the new gear dates from that time. It was probably a bare boat charter as the sailing school boats were usually 3 cabin 36s. Sailing School boats have a hard time!.

 

[wully1]

Don’t walk away from an ex charter boat - run...

 

[Tranona]

Don’t walk away from an ex charter boat - run...

Do you have personal experience to support this sweeping statement?

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

A quick google suggests it was with Solent Boat Charters. Up to at least 2019.
So it could have been quite heavily used and not always by skilled or careful people.
Hence the new engine.
I did a course on a Bav of similar era when it was only a few years old, and you could see that the intensive use was taking its toll.
There are a lot of expensive things on a boat which can wear out in 20 years of commercial use.
Everything from winches to upholstery.
Instead oi the usual blocks seized through lack of use, there might be some actually worn out.
Of course many of them will have been replaced, and the boat will have had a lot of maintenance, but how many jobs will have been quick fixes to fulfil a charter next week?
OTOH, boats in the trade are often looked after professionally by people who've spent a lot of time on boats and don't want a tatty or faulty boat associated with their business.
My experience of the yachting trade (which is mostly a fair while ago now) is that there is a who spectrum of people involved.
It looks pretty good in the pictures, but I've been looking at boats of late, and many are a real disappointment first hand.

Anyone in the market for a boat of this ilk should go and look at it, it could be a bargain, it could be a dog, it could be that some brokers and other people in the trade actually know what they're doing and the price is not far adrift. Talk to the broker, look at some other boats and talk to some other brokers.

One thing I recall from that era, when a lot of Sailing School boats were Bavs, is being told hat some school boats had different specs to 'owners versions'. Possibly smaller sails, even different masts? Smaller winches?
Maybe some parts were stronger as with 'college models' of some racing dinghies I knew about 20 years before that.
Do lots of research.
It's not like buying a mondeo, all used boats are unique.

You'll know that a price is fair when someone else nips in and buys it ahead of you, already happened to me, it's a learning thing.

Very fair points, thanks.

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

Sounds like it will turn out to be too good to be true!

 

[Mark-1]

Don’t walk away from an ex charter boat - run...

...but look at it first.

 

[ashtead]

Or spend a tad more and buy a 36 which will be newer( and also has the washboard storage I believe from the one I sailed.

 

[Wing Mark]

...but look at it first.

Exactly.
I learned a lot by looking at boats where the problems had become obvious.

 

[bitbaltic]

A quick google suggests it was with Solent Boat Charters. Up to at least 2019.
So it could have been quite heavily used and not always by skilled or careful people.
Hence the new engine.
I did a course on a Bav of similar era when it was only a few years old, and you could see that the intensive use was taking its toll.
There are a lot of expensive things on a boat which can wear out in 20 years of commercial use.
Everything from winches to upholstery.
Instead oi the usual blocks seized through lack of use, there might be some actually worn out.
Of course many of them will have been replaced, and the boat will have had a lot of maintenance, but how many jobs will have been quick fixes to fulfil a charter next week?
OTOH, boats in the trade are often looked after professionally by people who've spent a lot of time on boats and don't want a tatty or faulty boat associated with their business.
My experience of the yachting trade (which is mostly a fair while ago now) is that there is a who spectrum of people involved.
It looks pretty good in the pictures, but I've been looking at boats of late, and many are a real disappointment first hand.

Anyone in the market for a boat of this ilk should go and look at it, it could be a bargain, it could be a dog, it could be that some brokers and other people in the trade actually know what they're doing and the price is not far adrift. Talk to the broker, look at some other boats and talk to some other brokers.

One thing I recall from that era, when a lot of Sailing School boats were Bavs, is being told hat some school boats had different specs to 'owners versions'. Possibly smaller sails, even different masts? Smaller winches?
Maybe some parts were stronger as with 'college models' of some racing dinghies I knew about 20 years before that.
Do lots of research.
It's not like buying a mondeo, all used boats are unique.

You'll know that a price is fair when someone else nips in and buys it ahead of you, already happened to me, it's a learning thing.

That’s quite the tour de force of how to buy a boat concluding with ‘do as I say not as I do’.

Most used boats have been, by definition, been used by less skilled or careful people. This is why they have decided sailing is not for them and are selling the ruddy thing. The only time this is likely not to apply is when buying a one-owner boat whose owner is swallowing the anchor. Doubt there are any owners here who have not discovered bodges, poor maintenance or damage caused by previous owners who unsurprisingly wanted out.

You did a course on a more or less 20 year old bav more or less 20 years ago when it was more or less new, this is not expertise in the vessels.

I’ve sailed this generation of Bavs newer and older bigger and smaller. They are strong safe boats and no more will suffer from wear and tear than any other boat age for age (note I own and sail a quite different boat).

You are right that anyone buying a boat should look at it and moreso spend several hours looking it over in detail and recording a list of questions for a surveyor. This can be done whatever your previous experience if you have read and researched yacht construction which you obviously would do if buying a boat!

Personally I doubt there’s anything wrong with that boat, if I was in the market for a bigger family boat (I’m not) I would be straight down to gosport with a notepad torch and bradawl and I bet half a dozen people have been already. Hopefully the OP has not been put off but I’m not sure how serious a buyer he is just yet.

 

[Wing Mark]

....

You did a course on a more or less 20 year old bav more or less 20 years ago when it was more or less new, this is not expertise in the vessels.

....

I saw stuff being 'fixed' which I wouldn't have expected to get broken.
I think this says more about some of the cowboys in the sailing school trade than it says about Bavarias in general.
In that era, the Solent was half full of sailing school Bavarias, and the fact that not many of them got destroyed says good things about Bavarias in general.
School boats were often treated in ways no owner would contemplate.
Many years of abuse may have taken its toll.

It's 10% cheaper than the two listed on Apollo Duck.
What does that tell you?

 

[bitbaltic]

I saw stuff being 'fixed' which I wouldn't have expected to get broken.
I think this says more about some of the cowboys in the sailing school trade than it says about Bavarias in general.
In that era, the Solent was half full of sailing school Bavarias, and the fact that not many of them got destroyed says good things about Bavarias in general.
School boats were often treated in ways no owner would contemplate.
Many years of abuse may have taken its toll.

It's 10% cheaper than the two listed on Apollo Duck.
What does that tell you?

If by ‘that’ you mean the preceding series of points generally disconnected from the details of discussion and which constitute the bulk of your post, then it tells me little, but perhaps as much as I need to know.

As for your idea that price tells you something; 10 years ago I looked (for hours) over every Hanse 301 then on the market in the U.K. (four of them; that’s more than your bav34 internet sample, btw). The one I bought was neither the cheapest nor the most expensive but I assure you it was the best; I was decidedly in a position to know.

 

[Csfisher]

Price often doesn't mean anything. Hypothetical situation below - perhaps the boat market doesn't work like this but in years of selling and buying motorbikes I've found something like this is often the case :

Person A puts his pristine boat on the market for a fair price of 50k

Person B with an average condition boat sees boat A for 50 and decides that's what they're going for, I'll just add a little more in the hope I get more and to give haggle room. 55k.

Person C also has a good boat but needs to sell quickly so puts his on at a competitive 49k based on what he sees on the market.

Person D has an average condition boat, doesn't really want to sell right now but wants to take his chances and lists for 65k on the off chance he can make a tidy profit.

Persons E has a poor condition boat and sees other boats listed for 49-65k so lists his boat for the average of 57k.

 

[ashtead]

If we are not careful this will turn into debate on Bavaria however any surveyor will find faults it’s just a question of whether the issues are material. At least this model has a new engine and no doubt invoices to support. Personally I would buy a one loving owner boat but if looking at boats for39k at 10.8 m you might be waiting a while maybe . I guess nothing beats getting down to Gosport and having a poke around ,getting Gosport boatyard to lift out if serious and paying out your cash to hear all the issues (eg anchor not attached by piece of line,lifelines covered in white plastic so are might rust,needs a rigging check,shows worn rudder bearings,etc etc . I do wonder if surveyors have a stock Bavaria report template and just change the size and name?

 

[Mark-1]

I guess nothing beats getting down to Gosport and having a poke around

This.

 

[wully1]

Do you have personal experience to support this sweeping statement?

Yes my little pet stalker I do.

 

[Tranona]

Yes my little pet stalker I do.

Please share with us the details then.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

I'd much rather have that than the new equivalent from Bavaria. Sailed on a few times on a friend's boat of that generation and it impressed me as being very solid and well-behaved. If I have a criticism it's tht it's perhaps a little too well-behaved but it still sails at least as well as it peers. Lovely boats summed up nicely by Tranona.

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Price often doesn't mean anything. Hypothetical situation below - perhaps the boat market doesn't work like this but in years of selling and buying motorbikes I've found something like this is often the case :

Person A puts his pristine boat on the market for a fair price of 50k

Person B with an average condition boat sees boat A for 50 and decides that's what they're going for, I'll just add a little more in the hope I get more and to give haggle room. 55k.

Person C also has a good boat but needs to sell quickly so puts his on at a competitive 49k based on what he sees on the market.

Person D has an average condition boat, doesn't really want to sell right now but wants to take his chances and lists for 65k on the off chance he can make a tidy profit.

Persons E has a poor condition boat and sees other boats listed for 49-65k so lists his boat for the average of 57k.

You've just used profit and boat in the same sentence. No market is that good...