bitbaltic
Well-known member
Yes I agree although I had rather interpreted b) As ‘get a bigger boat and a bigger anchor’ which is obviously not sensible.
Apologies in advance for an anchor thread
- Thread starter bitbaltic
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James_Calvert
Well-known member
I had that as c..
I don't know the cruising areas concerned, until you get into the English Channel, but presumably there's room for caution and opportunities to avoid anchoring in unfavourable weather etc.
I don't know the cruising areas concerned, until you get into the English Channel, but presumably there's room for caution and opportunities to avoid anchoring in unfavourable weather etc.
bitbaltic
Well-known member
Yes- I’m looking at maximising a cruise through good gear, as opposed to a wild camping version of cruising.
Neeves
Well-known member
You have a perfectly good anchor with the Kobra - I'm not sure why you are asking the questions - unless you have found something wrong with the Kobra - in which case what is the problem. If you have found the Delta adequate, keep it as a second anchor. Mention has already been made that retreiving the chain by hand can be hard work - this implies you are using 8mm or heavier chain - WHY. 8mm chain has a UTS of almost 4t - you could lift the yacht fully laded with that chain, but don't stand underneath 
Think 6mm chain for the complete rode, or 6mm chain, say 20m and the rest rope.
If the 12kg for the anchor is difficult to stomach, or lift, then you really need to be thinking aluminium and that limits you, for an anchor that will handle most of what you are likely to find and that is an aluminium Spade (as a Fortress will not be too reliable in weed or stony/pebbly location) If you don't like the idea of aluminium and a Spade will empty your wallet quickly then you need to go to a gym more frequently as it does not matter which anchor you choose the weight will turn out to be much the same.
Most of the 'modern' anchors are going to have a roll bar - and are going to be difficult to fit into the bow locker. Most of us will not know the dimensions restriction imposed by your bow locker - so offering specific advice for anchor type is not going to be easy. Keeping it strapped on chocks on the deck is going to be a bit of a hindrance - and carrying a 12kg anchor along the deck one a dark wet windy night is not a solution I'd fancy. 12kg is manageable - but a frisky deck will make it taxing when you are tired. Your primary anchor need to be assembled and ready to use - so demountable anchors are not a sensible answer.
If price is an issue - don't fall into the trap of buying a cheap copy - most, (none?) of them are not as good as the original.
I've just tested the Viking and the Viking 10 has the same hold as the Spade A80 or S80 (I'll report on the Viking thread later). It is a roll bar anchor but is demountable - but as said - I think your primary anchor needs to be assembled. Viking is the new kid on the block and may be offering deals to develop some sales momentum. I would not option a Mantus - its rubbish and has the same hold as the same weight of Delta. Rocna, Supreme, Ultra are good and well tested. You might want to consider the Scots made Knox. The only non-roll bar anchor of merit, apart from Spade and Ultra would be the Australian Excel - worth asking them - they too might do a deal to bolster their position in the UK. I'd stick clear of Vulcan - testing has been very limited and there appear to be underlying question marks.
Jonathan
Think 6mm chain for the complete rode, or 6mm chain, say 20m and the rest rope.
If the 12kg for the anchor is difficult to stomach, or lift, then you really need to be thinking aluminium and that limits you, for an anchor that will handle most of what you are likely to find and that is an aluminium Spade (as a Fortress will not be too reliable in weed or stony/pebbly location) If you don't like the idea of aluminium and a Spade will empty your wallet quickly then you need to go to a gym more frequently as it does not matter which anchor you choose the weight will turn out to be much the same.
Most of the 'modern' anchors are going to have a roll bar - and are going to be difficult to fit into the bow locker. Most of us will not know the dimensions restriction imposed by your bow locker - so offering specific advice for anchor type is not going to be easy. Keeping it strapped on chocks on the deck is going to be a bit of a hindrance - and carrying a 12kg anchor along the deck one a dark wet windy night is not a solution I'd fancy. 12kg is manageable - but a frisky deck will make it taxing when you are tired. Your primary anchor need to be assembled and ready to use - so demountable anchors are not a sensible answer.
If price is an issue - don't fall into the trap of buying a cheap copy - most, (none?) of them are not as good as the original.
I've just tested the Viking and the Viking 10 has the same hold as the Spade A80 or S80 (I'll report on the Viking thread later). It is a roll bar anchor but is demountable - but as said - I think your primary anchor needs to be assembled. Viking is the new kid on the block and may be offering deals to develop some sales momentum. I would not option a Mantus - its rubbish and has the same hold as the same weight of Delta. Rocna, Supreme, Ultra are good and well tested. You might want to consider the Scots made Knox. The only non-roll bar anchor of merit, apart from Spade and Ultra would be the Australian Excel - worth asking them - they too might do a deal to bolster their position in the UK. I'd stick clear of Vulcan - testing has been very limited and there appear to be underlying question marks.
Jonathan
LittleSister
Well-known member
The Kobra seems to have a good reputation and has performed well in tests (I've no experience of it, but seriously considered buying one after reviewing various threads on YBW), but the shank is considered thin and more at risk of potential bending (though I can't remember whether I've seen any reports of it actually happening). It seems to be generally thought of as better than the 'older generation' (Delta, CQR, Bruce, etc. etc.) in terms of setting and holding etc., but not as good as the 'new generation' Rocna/Knox/Spade, etc. The latter, though are seriously expensive in comparison to the Kobra.
I note your 12kg is rated as suitable for up to 13m (42.6 feet). Given your concern about weight (though it's less under water, of course), you might want to consider the 8kg Kobra, which is what is recommended for your boat (and those up to 10m = 32.8 feet), and which sells for about £90 - £115 at present.
Note that the smaller Kobras up to 10kg (Kobra 1 series) have a latching mechanism to facilitate folding (for storage) and unfolding the anchor, as opposed to the bolted system on the Kobra 2 (12kg upwards). The Kobra 1 mechanism has received occasional sceptical comment on some threads , but I can't recall any report of it actually failing, and given the smaller anchor dimensions than the 12kg perhaps it might even fit in your anchor locker. (I wasn't clear why you didn't want your anchor on the bow roller.)
I second the suggestion of getting a chain stopper to aid hauling the chain in manually. A suitable arrangement will make a world of difference.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
(Ducks and runs!)
I note your 12kg is rated as suitable for up to 13m (42.6 feet). Given your concern about weight (though it's less under water, of course), you might want to consider the 8kg Kobra, which is what is recommended for your boat (and those up to 10m = 32.8 feet), and which sells for about £90 - £115 at present.
Note that the smaller Kobras up to 10kg (Kobra 1 series) have a latching mechanism to facilitate folding (for storage) and unfolding the anchor, as opposed to the bolted system on the Kobra 2 (12kg upwards). The Kobra 1 mechanism has received occasional sceptical comment on some threads , but I can't recall any report of it actually failing, and given the smaller anchor dimensions than the 12kg perhaps it might even fit in your anchor locker. (I wasn't clear why you didn't want your anchor on the bow roller.)
I second the suggestion of getting a chain stopper to aid hauling the chain in manually. A suitable arrangement will make a world of difference.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
(Ducks and runs!)
Neeves
Well-known member
Building on what Little Sister said.
I have an early version of the Kobra (its quite a new design) and was not very comfortable with its folding mechanism and had it welded up. I have never heard of anyone having issues with the folding mechanism - I was simply cautious and did not see the benefit to me of it folding. Considering it is a very simple design and cheap as chips it has good hold roughly between that of the Delta and that of Rocna/Supreme/Spade etc.of the same weight. It sets quickly and reliably. It is really good value for money (at the prices quoted) but it is let down by its wimpy shank. I did see one with a slight bend in the shank on a bow roller at Preston Marina (which is where I bought ours - which we carried back as luggage when we flew home). You can bend any anchor and I was not able to talk to the owner at Preston. However there are no claims made as to the steel used for the shank and I don't think it is anything special.
I, personally, would not use one as a primary anchor, because of the shank, and I would draw my doubts to the attention of anyone considering one. I have actually heard of no-one complaining that theirs has bent - maybe I'm too cautious. I did think of replacing the shank with something with a bit more muscle - but never got around to it.
There are a number, or a few, members here who have a Kobra as a primary - no-one has ever said they have been disappointed. However anchors are a bit emotive - and people my be reticent about admitting they bought a lemon - just be cognisant of the shank and don't abuse the anchor.
If you were on a tight budget - its the anchor to go for - you simply need to know about the shank and make your own decision about the folding mechanism.
Jonathan
I have an early version of the Kobra (its quite a new design) and was not very comfortable with its folding mechanism and had it welded up. I have never heard of anyone having issues with the folding mechanism - I was simply cautious and did not see the benefit to me of it folding. Considering it is a very simple design and cheap as chips it has good hold roughly between that of the Delta and that of Rocna/Supreme/Spade etc.of the same weight. It sets quickly and reliably. It is really good value for money (at the prices quoted) but it is let down by its wimpy shank. I did see one with a slight bend in the shank on a bow roller at Preston Marina (which is where I bought ours - which we carried back as luggage when we flew home). You can bend any anchor and I was not able to talk to the owner at Preston. However there are no claims made as to the steel used for the shank and I don't think it is anything special.
I, personally, would not use one as a primary anchor, because of the shank, and I would draw my doubts to the attention of anyone considering one. I have actually heard of no-one complaining that theirs has bent - maybe I'm too cautious. I did think of replacing the shank with something with a bit more muscle - but never got around to it.
There are a number, or a few, members here who have a Kobra as a primary - no-one has ever said they have been disappointed. However anchors are a bit emotive - and people my be reticent about admitting they bought a lemon - just be cognisant of the shank and don't abuse the anchor.
If you were on a tight budget - its the anchor to go for - you simply need to know about the shank and make your own decision about the folding mechanism.
Jonathan
jordanbasset
Well-known member
Agree with above posts.
We use a Kobra 2 as our primary anchor, rarely have had problems setting or holding, a good anchor and would recommend it. Never had a problem with the shank, but my understanding is most anchors with bend if given sufficient lateral pull when stuck in rocks etc
We use a Kobra 2 as our primary anchor, rarely have had problems setting or holding, a good anchor and would recommend it. Never had a problem with the shank, but my understanding is most anchors with bend if given sufficient lateral pull when stuck in rocks etc
Arcady
Active member
The Kobra is a good anchor: it has performed well in several magazine tests - although allegedly the stock is prone to bending. Notwithstanding that, I changed my Delta for a Kobra ll and had no regrets. It set reliably and well during several seasons of use. I would be entirely happy lying to a 10 kg Kobra on a boat of your size.
As for the Delta, slthough similar, the Delta is an older design and I too have always viewed Lewmar’s sizing chart as woefully optimistic - by at least two sizes!
Unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a new anchor, I would suggest switching to the Kobra as the bower and maybe keeping the Delta as a kedge (bit of a b****r to stow in the cockpit locker though!).
As for the Delta, slthough similar, the Delta is an older design and I too have always viewed Lewmar’s sizing chart as woefully optimistic - by at least two sizes!
Unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a new anchor, I would suggest switching to the Kobra as the bower and maybe keeping the Delta as a kedge (bit of a b****r to stow in the cockpit locker though!).
TernVI
Well-known member
Your kobra is a good anchor, but your boat is slightly too small for it....
If you want to save weight, use more rope and less chain.
In my view, there is a trap in having too heavy an anchor and gear, once you find retrieving it a real chore, you will no longer do those 'lunch stops'. That can have a big impact on the fun you get from the boat.
If you want to save weight, use more rope and less chain.
In my view, there is a trap in having too heavy an anchor and gear, once you find retrieving it a real chore, you will no longer do those 'lunch stops'. That can have a big impact on the fun you get from the boat.
CAPTAIN FANTASTIC
Well-known member
I have been using a Kobra 16kg for a few years; never failed. I suggest that you use your Kobra as your main anchor and keep the Delta as a spare. Your Kobra is not too big or heavy for your boat. The alternative is to buy an Aluminium Fortress/Guardian (I have one as a spare) which will be light to handle and good for the Bristol channel as they perform very well in mud/sand
BabaYaga
Well-known member
Within reasonable limits, I don't think the weight of the gear is the most important factor, rather how smooth the whole operation is. Until about ten years ago I had my bow anchor (then a CQR) stowed in the anchor locker and I only used it occasionally. Then I had a bespoke bow roller made (for a new Delta to sit in). That made a huge difference. I now anchor a lot, both over night and for lunch stops.
The effort required to lift the anchor and chain is, in my view, more related to the depth you choose to anchor in. For a lunch stop, there may be good opportunity to find a suitable depth.
FWIW, my anchor is 16 kg and I use 8mm chain. A lunch stop in 4 m is a doodle to handle. I avoid anchoring in over 12 m.
Stemar
Well-known member
My anchor lives on chocks on the foredeck. I have a chain locker, but only a hawse pipe, no lid. Unless you need to be leaping around on the foredeck dealing with a spinnaker or a set of hanked on sails, it really isn't a problem. It's also a 10 Kg Delta on a 24 foot boat and, touch wood, has never let me down, though it has failed to dig in in one bit of Newtown Creek, presumably because the bottom there has been blended into soup; a few yards away, it dug in fine.
Weight is an issue without a windlass, so I'd be tempted to stick with the Kobra, but get a mixed rode of, maybe, 15m of high strength 6mm chain and octoplait. That shouldn't break the bank, but it will hold you in any conditions you're likely to be out in.
Weight is an issue without a windlass, so I'd be tempted to stick with the Kobra, but get a mixed rode of, maybe, 15m of high strength 6mm chain and octoplait. That shouldn't break the bank, but it will hold you in any conditions you're likely to be out in.
TernVI
Well-known member
We all use our boats differently.
I wouldn't say we 'frequently' anchor in 20m, but I wouldn't want to be avoiding it.
BabaYaga
Well-known member
Yes, being a bit restricted when it comes to anchoring depth is the main drawback of not having a windlass, in my view.
Stemar
Well-known member
I very rarely do, but I'd want to be able to. I'd also want to be able to put out a big scope if things get bad enough that I don't want to scoot for home. It's unlikely, given modern forecasts, but I want to be able to do it. One big advantage of a mixed rode is that extra rope weighs very little, especially when immersed.
dunedin
Well-known member
How long do you plan to keep the boat? If more than 3 years do it properly, which is .........
We fitted an electric windlass when we got our last boat and it was a great investment. Binned our Delta and replaced with Rocna with much better setting.
We fitted an electric windlass when we got our last boat and it was a great investment. Binned our Delta and replaced with Rocna with much better setting.
ColinR
Member
On a windy night when the anchorage is a bit deep and it's not high tide yet you might wish you had a bit more scope so you can get 7-1. And make sure you have good chafe protection on the rope part of the rode where it goes over the bow roller. Jimmy Green sell various types, not plastic tube that generates heat. I would go for a bigger anchor as well for a good night's sleep. Rocna or other modern ones are excellent.
TonyMS
Active member
- Joined
- 16 May 2001
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- Winter St Ives, Cambs; summer Ionian
Two comments:
The Kobra 1 is also a good anchor. You can stop it from folding unexpectedly with a couple of cable ties. In extreme conditions, it can fail with sudden wind shifts, which demand instant resetting, as can any pre-NG anchor.
You can save weight with thinner chain. Strong 6mm chain is difficult to source in the UK at a reasonable price. But we bought grade 40 7mm chain quite cheaply.
The Kobra 1 is also a good anchor. You can stop it from folding unexpectedly with a couple of cable ties. In extreme conditions, it can fail with sudden wind shifts, which demand instant resetting, as can any pre-NG anchor.
You can save weight with thinner chain. Strong 6mm chain is difficult to source in the UK at a reasonable price. But we bought grade 40 7mm chain quite cheaply.
