• REMINDER

    Any content, information, or advice found on social media platforms and the wider Internet, including forums such as YBW, should NOT be acted upon unless checked against a reliable, authoritative source, and re-checked, particularly where personal health and liberty is at stake. Seek professional advice/confirmation before acting on such at all times.

    Users who are found to promulgate FAKE NEWS on the forum in regard to this issue, intentional or otherwise, may find their access terminated. It is your responsibility to provide references to bona fide sources.

    FAKE NEWS, in this regard, is that which is posited by organisations, media, etc., that is repeated on the forum, or used to support personal opinion/hypothesis posted by users - FAKE NEWS is not necessarily the personal opinion/hypothesis being posted in itself, any issues with such should be challenged respectfully.

Another anchor question

GHA

Well-known member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
10,506
Location
Hopefully somewhere warm
People get hot under the collar about catenary and the need for weight, but the physics shows that, when you really want the catenary for shock absorption, the chain's pulled straight, just like a mixed or all rope rode, and having a bit of string in there provides the elasticity you want. Better yet, with a lighter rode, it's easy to put plenty out there. If it's too heavy, there's a temptation to put out less than might be ideal because of the trouble getting it back in.
Bit more to it than that though, go too light and you're dancing round the anchorage in a breeze banging into everyone else, best to find the happy medium like everything on a boat :)
 

Mark-1

Well-known member
Joined
22 Sep 2008
Messages
2,696
If using two anchors consider light one on chain and warp, but keep heavier one on chain. But then you have storage issue up forard or dragging it along from stern
I'd say the heavy one needs to be "properly" heavy and the light one needs to be "properly" light. The light one+cable needs to be light enough to be carried and effortlessly deployed in seconds. If your lunch hook is 70pc of the effort/faff/time of your overnight anchor I see no point in the lunch hook.
 

doug748

Well-known member
Joined
1 Oct 2002
Messages
9,457
Location
Plymouth
The Contessa 32 anchor suggestion is a bit of a historical artifact. As a cruiser/racer it is minimum they thought they could get away with back in the day. In fact you must still stow that minimum of 55lbs of anchor gear, in the designed position, in order to race in class. So if you intend to seriously race it is a good idea to go down to it.

Personally, I was very glad to kiss goodbye to rope on the anchor. To my mind, it's one of the joys of a larger boat.
Rope is cold, wet, slimy stuff to handle, it wont self stow, picks up dirt and weed like a magnet and sits in the locker sullen, damp and festering. Apart from that and a few other things, it's great :- )

Seriously, you benefit from the catenary of your chain up to about 25kts which is the range you intend to anchor. 25kts through a coastal anchorage is a near gale at sea; you would be tucked up in a marina or on a mooring in Fowey or somewhere, with that sort of outlook. The catenary is also what helps stop you ranging about in tight tidal anchorages like the mouth of the Yealm.

I'm and old geezer and nobody would accuse me of being robustly built, but pulling up 8mm chain and a 25lb anchor by hand is still quite doable, except in the deepest of water where the manual winch can help.
I would keep the chain, tho when anchoring for lunch I sometimes put out as little as 1.5 * the depth of water where I know the holding is good, just to make life easier.

.
 

Mark-1

Well-known member
Joined
22 Sep 2008
Messages
2,696
I sometimes put out as little as 1.5 * the depth of water where I know the holding is good, just to make life easier.
Good point. You can be stingy with scope at lunchtime, more than one way to skin a cat.
 

Neeves

Well-known member
Joined
20 Nov 2011
Messages
6,029
Location
Sydney, Australia.
I'd check when your birthday is and buy yourself a windlass. Lifting 8mm chain is quite doable but at 2am in the rain it is a distinct deterrent to moving to somewhere more sheltered - and you will regret the consequences - if after a couple of boisterous nights 'they' don't want to come sailing with you anymore.

The windlass will make life so much easier (and when you come to move up to a bigger yacht) will make the yacht more saleable.

If you are going to plan carefully and are not intending to anchor in weed - I'd look at a Fortress aluminium anchor - it will make retrieval so much easier. I believe they come up on eBay with surprising frequency in the UK - keep a lookout.

Mixed rodes were very common, before the introduction of reliable electric windlass - most people now have all chain - and know no other. But previous generations survived with mixed rodes - I see no reason why you cannot continue the practice with safety.


If you decide to consider a windlass - start a new thread - to get a cross section of advice.

Jonathan
 

Stemar

Well-known member
Joined
12 Sep 2001
Messages
12,565
Location
Home - Southampton, Boat - Gosport
I'd check when your birthday is and buy yourself a windlass. Lifting 8mm chain is quite doable but at 2am in the rain it is a distinct deterrent to moving to somewhere more sheltered - and you will regret the consequences - if after a couple of boisterous nights 'they' don't want to come sailing with you anymore.

The windlass will make life so much easier (and when you come to move up to a bigger yacht) will make the yacht more saleable.

If you are going to plan carefully and are not intending to anchor in weed - I'd look at a Fortress aluminium anchor - it will make retrieval so much easier. I believe they come up on eBay with surprising frequency in the UK - keep a lookout.

Mixed rodes were very common, before the introduction of reliable electric windlass - most people now have all chain - and know no other. But previous generations survived with mixed rodes - I see no reason why you cannot continue the practice with safety.


If you decide to consider a windlass - start a new thread - to get a cross section of advice.

Jonathan
🤞
If I had a nice electric windlass to do all the hard work, I'd probably have all chain, simply because most gypsies don't do well changing from chain to rope, though I understand some do or, at least, claim to. However, a windlass it out of my budget and is really not a sensible investment on an ageing Snapdragon, so I have 18m of 6mm chain and a a good lump of rope. In less than about 5m, I just chuck all the chain out, plus a couple of m of rope for shock absorption, dig it in a bit and job done.
 

zoidberg

Well-known member
Joined
12 Nov 2016
Messages
3,349
That recommended as 'the standard setup' for your Contessa 32 , by noted designers Sadler and Rogers, is probably right. Those two knew their stuff. Back in 1970 the galvanised drop forged steel CQR 25lb was the anchor to have. How fashions change...!

I note the OP's avatar-name and the little pic - 'Yealm'. West Country. My stamping ground..... I would think all the river estuaries and common anchorages within a day's sail would be sand and/or mud..... good holding.

I reiterate that a 10-12m. chain and a 50m. warp secured to a Fortress Fx-16 ( or even a Fx-11 ) would do the job of lunchtimes and occasional mild overnights in Cawsand Bay, up the Tamar, Fal estuary, well up Salcombe, the Scillies, and even Starehole Bay ( watch for foul ground- wreckage )

It's practicable to run the tail of a long warp back to the cockpit, and bring the warp and chain in from there using a sheet winch.... which is what I believe the OP wanted to know.
 

lw395

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
41,515
My current configuration is a pain to pull up (manual windless).
I looked on the manufacturer's website and the boat (Contessa 32) comes standard with a 25 lb anchor, 10m 8mm chain and 30m warp.
I think I've currently got more like 30-50m chain.
If I went for the standard configuration - would this be enough for lunchtime anchoring and the odd night, in sheltered, benign Summer conditions ?
You might want to put some more string on the end of the warp sometimes, if it's windy and the water is deep. A 40m rode is not a lot at HW sometimes.
Contessas are dogs with weight in the bow.
 

GHA

Well-known member
Joined
26 Jun 2013
Messages
10,506
Location
Hopefully somewhere warm
That recommended as 'the standard setup' for your Contessa 32 , by noted designers Sadler and Rogers, is probably right. Those two knew their stuff. Back in 1970 the galvanised drop forged steel CQR 25lb was the anchor to have. How fashions change...!
Not really fashion, we've masses more reliable data & experience to go on and better designs these days. Moitessier/Hiscocks et al would all be doing what they did then these days, seeking out the best info and tech available to them, which would be a new gen these days. Sod all to do with fashion, they were as smart & inquiring as the smart and inquiring are today. :cool:
 

oldmanofthehills

Well-known member
Joined
13 Aug 2010
Messages
1,702
Location
Bristol
That recommended as 'the standard setup' for your Contessa 32 , by noted designers Sadler and Rogers, is probably right. Those two knew their stuff. Back in 1970 the galvanised drop forged steel CQR 25lb was the anchor...................................
I note the OP's avatar-name and the little pic - 'Yealm'. West Country. My stamping ground..... I would think all the river estuaries and common anchorages within a day's sail would be sand and/or mud..... good holding.
25lb(11.4kg) CQR as a go to anchor was probably fine back in the day. To get the same hold from a 4th gen anchor probably 7.5 or 8kg would do, however chain still weighs the same as it always did

I you think all SW holding is good you havent tried Barn Poole by Mount Edgecombe - I got so frustrated once trying to get it to hold I actually swapped to my Supreme storm weather anchor. Ok on other occasions.
 

Kukri

Well-known member
Joined
23 Jul 2008
Messages
11,830
Location
East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
I have the book by an early delivery skipper "All Weather Yachtsman"

He relates a time when anchored near Gibraltar in a Levanter with constant high winds and gusts of over 100 MPH with all chain - 3/8th inch IIRC - that when it was time to leave the chain would not fit the gypsy.

Every link had stretched and the galvanising had flaked off.

That's pressure on the anchoring gear!
Excellent book. The author invented the modern safety harness.
44FA22C9-A228-4AFE-BE9A-F7E4967E3B20.jpeg
 

BlowingOldBoots

Well-known member
Joined
5 Aug 2009
Messages
15,416
Location
Scotland.
Excellent book. The author invented the modern safety harness.
View attachment 90516

It's fascinating how safety has moved on, or rather attitudes to safety have moved on, hand in hand with technology improvements. Three decades ago foredeck and mast work was something accepted as normal and made safer with harnesses. Now furling systems and back to cockpit lines has placed a different safety perception on foredeck work.
 

zoidberg

Well-known member
Joined
12 Nov 2016
Messages
3,349
:giggle: I don't disagree with any of the preferences above. I still have a venerable 25lb CQR doing Gate Guardian duty somewhere, and have moved on myself 'in preference' to Fortress Fx-16 and Spade. ( both bought via the 'For Sale' sub-forum here )

But..... the OP didn't ask for a motley selection of other ideas. And yes, I do know Barn Pool - a very pretty spot, I grant you - and I do know that some of the sports divers around Plymouth have a handy little sideline in recovering seriously-fouled anchors from there. There are some so badly snarled-up in the generations of 'boatyard' junk ditched there that they've been stuck for many years.

I believe that at least one of the yottie almanacs mentions Barn Pool as an anchorage, but warns of 'foul ground'.
 

Neeves

Well-known member
Joined
20 Nov 2011
Messages
6,029
Location
Sydney, Australia.
I don't know the yacht but if weight in the bow is an issue - think of (and gain opinion of) 6mm G40 chain. Paired with a Fortress - it will all be easier to manage.

Jonathan
 

Yealm

Well-known member
Joined
13 Apr 2017
Messages
3,065
I’ve just checked the tackle I actually have - it’s CQR 25lb with 38m of 8mm chain and 50m of warp. Would other people be happy using that without an electric windless ? - maybe I just need to work out more :)
I looked into a second lunch anchor, but there’s very little locker space on the boat.

So going to persist with current setup and maybe follow others’ suggestions and try a reduced scope for lunchtime..
 

Stemar

Well-known member
Joined
12 Sep 2001
Messages
12,565
Location
Home - Southampton, Boat - Gosport
it’s CQR 25lb with 38m of 8mm chain and 50m of warp. Would other people be happy using that without an electric windless ?
I have a 22 lb anchor and about 17m of 8mm chain, plus rope. I switched the 8mm forthe same amount of 6mm because, with no windlass, I was struggling to get it back on board. I considered a manual windlass, but decided I haven't got the patience, especially when solo. Sod's law is very clear on the likely outcome if you have to wind in several metres of chain by hand in a crowded anchorage and a bit of breeze
 

lw395

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
41,515
We anchor frequently with about 5m of chain and plenty of rope.
Back in the days when there was more racing in Contessas, I'm sure they mostly carried the minimum chain required for the racing, but many or most would be required to carry two anchors.
For lunch, get a cheap Danforth type, a little bit of chain, plenty of string and enjoy.

Around the Yealm, when it comes to sitting out weather, I see it as either very exposed or reasonable shelter being available. There aren't really that many places you're likely to sit out the brunt of a gale at anchor if you've got any sense and a forecast. You'll be up a river or in a harbour moored up.

Without an electric windlass that you can rely on, all that weight to lift becomes a hindrance to a safe departure, not a safer option. Bad enough with a good helmsman, single handed, an absolute liability.
 

xyachtdave

Well-known member
Joined
9 May 2009
Messages
2,164
Location
The land of the Medway
The only thing I'd add to the advice above is short bits of chain with warp are great when wind and tide are together.

If overnighting and it comes on to blow I've had the warp wrapped around the keel as boat blown over it a couple of times and it's not pleasant or an easy problem to solve. Mark-1 has a good point about having some lunch-stop tackle available, rather than the heavy stuff.

Without a windlass I can handle 35 m of 8 mm chain and a 10 kg Delta (that's backed up with 30 m of 16 mm anchor plait) by hand with my partner driving the boat. It's shallow around here, so I'd sound in to to about 2 m at LW, add on the tide and 30 m of chain usually does the business.

There's a few Skip Novak wannabes on the YBW anchor threads that'll insist 1 NM of 10 mm chain and the largest Rocna anchor available is the only solution for a decent nights sleep on your boat!
 

lw395

Well-known member
Joined
16 May 2007
Messages
41,515
The only thing I'd add to the advice above is short bits of chain with warp are great when wind and tide are together.

If overnighting and it comes on to blow I've had the warp wrapped around the keel as boat blown over it a couple of times and it's not pleasant or an easy problem to solve. Mark-1 has a good point about having some lunch-stop tackle available, rather than the heavy stuff.

Without a windlass I can handle 35 m of 8 mm chain and a 10 kg Delta (that's backed up with 30 m of 16 mm anchor plait) by hand with my partner driving the boat. It's shallow around here, so I'd sound in to to about 2 m at LW, add on the tide and 30 m of chain usually does the business.

There's a few Skip Novak wannabes on the YBW anchor threads that'll insist 1 NM of 10 mm chain and the largest Rocna anchor available is the only solution for a decent nights sleep on your boat!
We used to get the rope around the keel comedy when we first got our first yacht.
I think anchor rode must have been some sort of polyprop, it was buoyant!
We generally hang a small lump of lead say 5 or 10 metres down the rode now. A 2kg dive weight is plenty to sink the rode as the tide turns and we've not had a problem since. I have a bigger weight which is useful in some sea conditions, I find it damps the motion of the boat. Unlike chain, you don't have to lift these weights at the same time as lifting the anchor.
 
Top