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Anchoring up the river Yar?

bdh198

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Last week some of the family (I was not among them) followed Peter Bruce's recent advice in Yachting Monthly and sailed past the swing bridge in Yarmouth and up the River Yar to anchor for the night. They anchored our Hanse 370 at the bend in the river suggested by Peter as a suitable place for deep keeled yachts. It was a Thursday night, so there was no racing from the Yarmouth Sailing Club, and the yacht was not obstructing the fairway.

The next morning, as they enjoyed an early breakfast, they were approached by the harbourmaster in his rib who told them that anchoring was not permitted anywhere South of the swing bridge. They point to the advice given in Yachting Monthly, of which he had previously been unaware, but he maintained his position that no boats were authorised to anchor anywhere South of the swing bridge.

As Peter points out in his article, the harbourmaster has jurisdiction over the river as far as the causeway so it seems that a new policy has been imposed since Peter last visited that part of the river. It therefore seems that if you want to enjoy this "unspoilt" part of the river it will need to be done by rib and mooring up on the pontoon just South of the bridge, or by joining the racing at the Yarmouth Sailing Club.

Here is a link to Peter's recent article: https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/cruising-guides/unspoilt-river-yar-isle-of-wight-solent-65867.
 
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Seven Spades

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I wonder if the rules have not changed but the bridge has existed for so long now that the rights have been forgotten because they have not been exercised.
 

prv

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it seems that a new policy has been imposed since Peter last visited that part of the river.
Or more likely anchoring was prohibited when he was there too, but nobody happened to come past and notice.

I wonder if the rules have not changed but the bridge has existed for so long now that the rights have been forgotten because they have not been exercised.
Harbour authorities generally have the power to control anchoring in their area, so assuming the policy is properly laid down rather than just made up on the spot then there are no rights to have been forgotten.

I don't know the river above the bridge very well, but if there's room to anchor without causing a problem then it seems a pity to prohibit it. Doesn't mean they can't, though.

Pete
 

Giblets

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Surely where they anchored was SOUTH of the swing bridge. Methinks the h/m could do with a copy of the rules and a compass!
 

jac

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Surely where they anchored was SOUTH of the swing bridge. Methinks the h/m could do with a copy of the rules and a compass!
Copied from the rules on the HM's OWN website.

31. Anchoring in the Inner Harbour between the breakwater and the River Yar swing bridge is prohibited. Elsewhere in the Harbour, vessels must not anchor in the fairway or anchor so as to obstruct or be likely to obstruct navigation, and in the Outer Harbour must be in preferred anchorages only. Anchored vessels are liable to pay harbour dues. The Master of a vessel anchoring in the Harbour must notify the Harbour Master accordingly.


Inner Harbour is defined by in schedule 2 as
“The Inner Harbour” –
1.2.1 so much of the natural Harbour at Yarmouth (Isle of Wight) and of the river Yar as is situated below the level of high water and enclosed:-
(a) by an imaginary line drawn across the Harbour entrance, commencing at a point at the eastern end of the west breakwater (reference point 50 42.39’ N, 001 29.90’ W) and terminating at a point at the northern end of the Inner Pier (reference point 50 42.39’N, 001 29.35’W); and
(b) by the northern side of the road bridge known as the Causeway;
and by the level of high water within the area so enclosed, including all adjoining creeks, bays and inlets to the extent that they are situated below the level of high water but excluding any areas situated to the west of the imaginary line described in section 14(1)(ii) of the 1931 Order.
1


SO looks like Peter was right and HM was a muppet.
 

BelleSerene

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I wonder if the rules have not changed but the bridge has existed for so long now that the rights have been forgotten because they have not been exercised.
That is a principle of public rights of way over land; it does not apply to the right to navigation in tidal waters. This right is recognised in Magna Carta and is embedded in our Common Law and it would take an act of Parliament, or an exercise of statutory rights given by Parliament to the Harbour Authority*, to restrict it.

Mere lack of use does not diminish this public right.

* most likely the Harbours Act 1964 unless there’s a harbour-specific Act such as there is for Chichester Harbour.
 
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I've been visiting Yarmouth since 1975 and always understood the other side of the bridge was verboten to cruisers, a dinghy trip job only.
 

bdh198

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Surely where they anchored was SOUTH of the swing bridge. Methinks the h/m could do with a copy of the rules and a compass!
Whoops... yes, there's clearly some serious deviation issues with my compass!

(I've now swung the compass in my original post and corrected the error!)
 

colhel

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Whoops... yes, there's clearly some serious deviation issues with my compass!

(I've now swung the compass in my original post and corrected the error!)
You're not alone! I'm always gettin me North n South mixed up, I wonder if i look at the mainland shore and as its South Coast I assume I'm North ��
 

Mad Pad

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You're not alone! I'm always gettin me North n South mixed up, I wonder if i look at the mainland shore and as its South Coast I assume I'm North ��
A cousin of mine owns Kings Manor and I understand that if he can request the bridge to be opened AT ANY TIME.
I think these rights are quite normal for people owning property upstream of a bridge being built.
I took my 58" to his pontoon a few years ago..and had about 70" to turn around in to save reversing down the Yar.

Digressing..isn't the Yar more of a "cut" than a river,I believe it went through to the channel maybe 1,000 years ago?

Best,
Mad Pad
 

robertj

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What is it with this harbour or river dues scam?
Recreational boaters have let their right s slip and not challenge these ~Harbour Masters.
You have the right to anchor I believe?!
 

BelleSerene

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What is it with this harbour or river dues scam?
Recreational boaters have let their right s slip and not challenge these ~Harbour Masters.
You have the right to anchor I believe?!
In tidal waters, and for the purposes of navigation, yes. However, the Harbours Act 1964 allows certain ‘harbour authorities’ to charge you a ‘reasonable’ fee for ‘harbour dues’ to ‘use’ the harbour. ‘Using’ it includes being in its waters, whether or not you land or use any facilities. As you need to do in order to anchor in them, this varied what had been a right since Magna Carta to anchor without charge.
 

robertj

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In tidal waters, and for the purposes of navigation, yes. However, the Harbours Act 1964 allows certain ‘harbour authorities’ to charge you a ‘reasonable’ fee for ‘harbour dues’ to ‘use’ the harbour. ‘Using’ it includes being in its waters, whether or not you land or use any facilities. As you need to do in order to anchor in them, this varied what had been a right since Magna Carta to anchor without charge.
Common law exceeds all other law.
That why this country is a ‘common law jurisdiction policed by consent’, not my words but Theresa May’s when she was the Home Secretary.
People so willingly give up their rights.
They have the right to charge commercial traffic not private.
 

BelleSerene

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Common law exceeds all other law.
That why this country is a ‘common law jurisdiction policed by consent’, not my words but Theresa May’s when she was the Home Secretary.
People so willingly give up their rights.
They have the right to charge commercial traffic not private.
Not so, I’m afraid, Robert. Parliament is supreme and can pass what laws it wishes. Rights under common law can not be extinguished EXCEPT by an Act of Parliament: the government itself cannot restrict our freedoms.

Theresa May is merely the Prime Minister and what she says obviously doesn’t over-ride this principle. But with respect, it is overwhelmingly more likely that you’ve misunderstood her than that she really stated that statute (ie Acts of Parliament) does not overrule our common law.
 
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Muddy32

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I first anchored beyond the bridge some 60 years ago and have done so on a number of occasions since without complaint or interference from the harbour authority. Has anyone else?
 
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robertj

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Not so, I’m afraid, Robert. Parliament is supreme and can pass what laws it wishes. Rights under common law can not be extinguished EXCEPT by an Act of Parliament: the government itself cannot restrict our freedoms.

Theresa May is merely the Prime Minister and what she says obviously doesn’t over-ride this principle. But with respect, it is overwhelmingly more likely that you’ve misunderstood her than that she really stated that statute (ie Acts of Parliament) does not overrule our common law.
Not so I#m afraid you are wrong! Parliment passes acts and statutes which cannot surpass common law.
The home secretary said what I quoted on tv a forum that even surprised me admitting not only we are a common law country but the statement that we are 'policed by consent' which opens a can of woms in its self. I can interpret her words fine thanks and I feel you have not grasped the nettle.
 
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Whatever you two are on about, anchoring beyond the bridge is and always has been a no-no; is that clear enough or do I have call in a lawyer in a flying boat ? :)
 
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