Advice on Bristol Channel boating

Yellow Ballad

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If I am honest I am split 50/50 on being excited/terrified by the concept of BC sailing.

That's probably the best way to be and I'm still like that after two years in the BC. It really isn't that bad if you plan where you want to go and work out times, check the weather you shouldn't go to wrong. It's no worse then many other places round the UK. Get some easy sails in first, from Cardiff you can't get any easier then up to Newport on a weekend. With a westerly you fly up with the wind behind you, and on the way back as long as you leave when there's enough water you'll make it back home to Cardiff. The club is friendly and there's a pontoon to dry out on, granted you can't really walk in to the town or do much but you get enjoy a bit of boat time if you're happy enough to cook your own grub and bed down on the boat.
 

Manic76

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That's probably the best way to be and I'm still like that after two years in the BC. It really isn't that bad if you plan where you want to go and work out times, check the weather you shouldn't go to wrong. It's no worse then many other places round the UK. Get some easy sails in first, from Cardiff you can't get any easier then up to Newport on a weekend. With a westerly you fly up with the wind behind you, and on the way back as long as you leave when there's enough water you'll make it back home to Cardiff. The club is friendly and there's a pontoon to dry out on, granted you can't really walk in to the town or do much but you get enjoy a bit of boat time if you're happy enough to cook your own grub and bed down on the boat.

Sounds good. Are you referring to the Newport and Uskmouth sailing club as a stopover? Does that cost?
 

Yellow Ballad

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Sounds good. Are you referring to the Newport and Uskmouth sailing club as a stopover? Does that cost?

Yes, NUSC, like I say has to be the easiest sail in the channel from Cardiff as long as you follow the cones and cans either end and give any ships a wide berth in the river you'll be ok. (word of warning if you go in to the Pill don't go past the pontoon there's low power cables, but the river pontoon is where you want to be in a bilge). They don't charge for visitors but I'm sure if you buy a beer or two in the bar if it's open they wouldn't say no. If you see someone, pop over and say hello, I'm sure they will get the kettle on. If you call or email the club I'm sure someone can give you better information then me.

Like I say not really much to do once your there, but an easy sail to break you in.

Good luck with whatever you choose.
 

vodzurk

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I'm only 2 seasons in on having a mobo in the BC... and the doomsayers almost threw me into not bothering.

But I'm glad we did. This season we did Portishead > Swansea > Tenby and back @ ~300 miles and it was great! If next season goes well, we might be looking at a bigger boat! :)

As others have said:

  • Watch the weather (in particular, I don't even bother going out if it's blowing a SW-erly).
  • Be aware of the tidal current. I've heard it can push 15mph in places (deciding not to call Portishead to ask why one of their buoys shot past us at maybe 15mph when we "weren't moving" was a good decision). A personal one too... if going between the Holm's... take care... the water really turned on us between them at one point and still unsure why.
  • Be aware of the tidal height, and how quickly it changes... I've heard horror stories of boats at anchor being dragged under by their own anchor. Possibly urban legend but hey. We use Navionics if anchoring, to determine against the nearest marker how much the water will drop, and then add some leeway.
  • If possible, stay out of the shipping lane. Saw a bunch of lads have engine failure a month back as a monster shipping container was bearing down on them. They weren't responding on radio either, but thankfully got towed out of the way pretty fast by a friendly mobo. If crossing near Bristol area, check for traffic with Bristol VTS.
  • If a bit green... check if there are any events going on before you go out... as packing into a lock when you're out of practice can be worrying.
  • Consider a spare/aux engine. Our main has failed twice, and we were glad of our aux (both times we contacted coastguard to set up 30-min checks as we limped in and they were utterly lovely at offering to tow us, but we managed without).
  • Probably not applicable - but don't depend on anywhere having petrol!
  • Call firing ranges if intending to cross, even if charts say you have right of way and don't need to.
 
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oldmanofthehills

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I'm only 2 seasons in on having a mobo in the BC... and the doomsayers almost threw me into not bothering. But I'm glad we did. This season we did Portishead > Swansea > Tenby and back @ ~300 miles and it was great! If next season goes well, we might be looking at a bigger boat! :)[/LIST]

Well I'm pleased you stuck to it. Asked lot of advice, honed your skills and got on with it. Didn't get drowned or wrecked once.
 

Dutch01527

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Meant to ask, which club is this?

Cardiff Yacht Club. I forgot to mention that you have to “buy” the pontoon for £2700 I believe but your money is returned in full when you leave. Fore and aft mooring are also available much cheaper.

Best location being walking distane from the bay leisure area but no electricity on the pontoon and not as busy as Cardiff Bay Yacht Club - the clubhouse only opens restricted hours but showers ect are 24x7 hours. I like it.
 

Dutch01527

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For piece of mind I would suggest anyone on the BC getting some training. You hear scare stories in the Yacht Club bars or online usually from someone who has just bought a £1000 first boat on eBay or who has not been out of the bay for 10 years but the reality is that it is no different to any tidal waters, just a bit larger in magnitude.

Sailing in a decent boat in a SW is fine, just not a force 6+ with wind over tide in certain areas.
Other than the right up to the River Severn tides peak at 3 to 4 knots, usually less. Make sure they are behind you.
If you anchor make sure that you have enough water underneath at low water and a long enough rode at high water as posted above.

Pretty much basic seamanship anywhere. There are a number of sail in company groups / events that are a great way to learn for the less experienced.
 

Dutch01527

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Dutch and Steve, thank you for your comprehensive comments, really appreciated. If I am honest I am split 50/50 on being excited/terrified by the concept of BC sailing.

If anyone needs crew for a day out of Cardiff we would be very interested in helping out :)

I would be happy to take you out for a day if dates match up. PM me if interested.
 

Yellow Ballad

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Sailing in a decent boat in a SW is fine, just not a force 6+ with wind over tide in certain areas.

The wind does tend to blow out of the West a lot but with the tides just be prepared to have wind over tide either on the trip out or the trip back but a 35ft sailing boat will lap it up, don't worry too much.

As mentioned, work with the tides West with the ebb, East with the flood, keep off the green stuff till you're confident, that's all you can do apart from enjoy it.
 

Manic76

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Yes, NUSC, like I say has to be the easiest sail in the channel from Cardiff as long as you follow the cones and cans either end and give any ships a wide berth in the river you'll be ok. (word of warning if you go in to the Pill don't go past the pontoon there's low power cables, but the river pontoon is where you want to be in a bilge). They don't charge for visitors but I'm sure if you buy a beer or two in the bar if it's open they wouldn't say no. If you see someone, pop over and say hello, I'm sure they will get the kettle on. If you call or email the club I'm sure someone can give you better information then me.

Like I say not really much to do once your there, but an easy sail to break you in.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Thanks, sounds like a good starter trio.
 

bitbaltic

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I'm only 2 seasons in on having a mobo in the BC... and the doomsayers almost threw me into not bothering.

But I'm glad we did. This season we did Portishead > Swansea > Tenby and back @ ~300 miles and it was great! If next season goes well, we might be looking at a bigger boat! :)

As others have said:

  • Watch the weather (in particular, I don't even bother going out if it's blowing a SW-erly).
  • Be aware of the tidal current. I've heard it can push 15mph in places (deciding not to call Portishead to ask why one of their buoys shot past us at maybe 15mph when we "weren't moving" was a good decision). A personal one too... if going between the Holm's... take care... the water really turned on us between them at one point and still unsure why.
  • Be aware of the tidal height, and how quickly it changes... I've heard horror stories of boats at anchor being dragged under by their own anchor. Possibly urban legend but hey. We use Navionics if anchoring, to determine against the nearest marker how much the water will drop, and then add some leeway.
  • If possible, stay out of the shipping lane. Saw a bunch of lads have engine failure a month back as a monster shipping container was bearing down on them. They weren't responding on radio either, but thankfully got towed out of the way pretty fast by a friendly mobo. If crossing near Bristol area, check for traffic with Bristol VTS.
  • If a bit green... check if there are any events going on before you go out... as packing into a lock when you're out of practice can be worrying.
  • Consider a spare/aux engine. Our main has failed twice, and we were glad of our aux (both times we contacted coastguard to set up 30-min checks as we limped in and they were utterly lovely at offering to tow us, but we managed without).
  • Probably not applicable - but don't depend on anywhere having petrol!
  • Call firing ranges if intending to cross, even if charts say you have right of way and don't need to.

Quick look at Navionics says you sailed about 100 Nm off the rhumb lines to do that (direct passages and back about 200 Nm).

Guess it’s doable in a power boat or prefereable if you want to hug the shore for pleasure but be aware the OP is talking about slower and more weather-kindly sailing boats.

These sail point to point to maximise the tides and minimise passage time.

I think the 15mph tides and yachts being dragged under by their anchors are all urban legends thankfully.

All engines on sailing yachts are auxiliary (the primary engines are the white flappy things up top).
 
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TOKOLOSHI

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I think the 15mph tides and yachts being dragged under by their anchors are all urban legends thankfully.
________________________________________
It has happened! Yacht from Cardiff got the tide wrong arrived off Charston Rock approx 4 hours before HW, with no water in the Pill so anchored off Charston Rock with all chain! Tide rising fast and he could not release chain from post so called "Sara" from Beachley who arrived quickly, but with no cutting gear on board, quickly returned and collected bolt cutters to release his yacht and towed him safely into the Pill and safety!

Photo 19-05-2018, 12 49 06 Charston rock.jpg
 
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oldmanofthehills

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I think the 15mph tides and yachts being dragged under by their anchors are all urban legends thankfully.
________________________________________
It has happened! Yacht from Cardiff got the tide wrong arrived off Charston Rock approx 4 hours before HW, with no water in the Pill so anchored off Charston Rock with all chain! Tide rising fast and he could not release chain from post so called "Sara" from Beachley who arrived quickly, but with no cutting gear on board, quickly returned and collected bolt cutters to release his yacht and towed him safely into the Pill and safety!View attachment 73156

Heard about when I had moorings that way, but never got coherent details, though it was suggested the issue was that his anchor chain was too short thus pulling down as tide rose. Very approx vector of forces 20m of chain in 10m gives 30degree down towards bottom and half of the pull is down. If there is one ton of pull on chain thats like half ton sitting on the bows. 50m in 10m gives only 11 degrees and only one fifth of the pull is downward, so plausible explanation at least.

So not quite Urban Legend but an urban exaggeration of an incident. I suspect he might well have been ok provided his cleats held and not too much water splashing over his bows, but frightening enough
 

bitbaltic

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I think the 15mph tides and yachts being dragged under by their anchors are all urban legends thankfully.
________________________________________
It has happened! Yacht from Cardiff got the tide wrong arrived off Charston Rock approx 4 hours before HW, with no water in the Pill so anchored off Charston Rock with all chain! Tide rising fast and he could not release chain from post so called "Sara" from Beachley who arrived quickly, but with no cutting gear on board, quickly returned and collected bolt cutters to release his yacht and towed him safely into the Pill and safety!

View attachment 73156

As oldmanofthehills says that is a case of two failures of seamanship:

1) insufficient scope for the rise of tide anticipated before he could get in

2) chain unreleaseable from the boat. We have 30m chain and 50m warp. The end of the warp has a hard eye and is lashed to the anchor locker with a simple dyneema lashing, easily cut.

When the chain is out it is held by a chain hook on a line OXO to a cleat. When the warp goes out it is OXO around same cleat with no load on the anchor locker strong point in either case.

Should I mis-read my scope then in the worst of circumstances I can easily cut the anchor locker lashing, release whatever is at the cleat and be free. If I mis-read my scope with all chain out, all I have to do is release the hook, pay out warp, and oxo the warp.

If i’m Out of warp I can get in anyways.

Think stuff like this is in all the basic books eg tom Cunliffe.
 
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vodzurk

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Quick look at Navionics says you sailed about 100 Nm off the rhumb lines to do that (direct passages and back about 200 Nm).

Guess it’s doable in a power boat or prefereable if you want to hug the shore for pleasure but be aware the OP is talking about slower and more weather-kindly sailing boats.

These sail point to point to maximise the tides and minimise passage time.
Yep, we mostly hugged the coast... our planned routes were:
(Navionics Link) Portishead > Swansea = 64.7m = 129.4m round.
(Navionics Link Swansea > Milford Haven = 81.6m = 163.2m round.

Total = 292.6m.

However... we only made it to Tenby. That probably takes 60 miles off the total = 232m.
But... we did go out for a ~90 min test run around Swansea after engine repairs @ ~ 20m = 252m.
And... we did make quite a few detours during the trip... Port Talbot... Mooching around Porthcawl.
And... we didn't stick perfectly to the route... primary engine failure had us limping in along the coast.

... so probably close to 300 miles (or 260nm).
 

CAPTAIN FANTASTIC

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I am not in a position to provide advice on the Bristol Channel as I have only been in the Bristol Channel for one year. We spend many years sailing the Solent, East Coast and West Pembrokeshire.

In my opinion, although tides are strong, the tidal range is the determining factor. The majority of places that one would like to visit, dry out and therefore careful attention is needed in terms of timing, anchoring gear and more robust planning.

I am sure it can get very rough in the BC especially when wind against the tide but for those who have sailed in the Solent, it can get very rough there, especially at the East entrance. But, we are enjoying the BC and sailing into Cardiff Bay is fun.
 

Travellingwithtoby

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For Bristol Channelyou will be better off with twin bilge keels as it allows you to creep into harbours like Instow, Minehead, Ilfracombe, etc. and dry out. Watchet also a possibility.

Have a look at pics of e.g. Ilfracombe and see what the harbour looks like at low tide.

With that sort of length you should be able to overcome the tidal streams except in the strongest places (which you will be avoiding anyway). Decent engine advisable.

Heading W along the Welsh coast takes you to deep water and good wandering round Milford Haven.

There a few harbours on the N Coast of Devon and Cornwall that do need care. It is not as easy a coast as English Channel, but much quieter in terms of boat density, and the beer is better :)

Cardiff is full of experienced and friendly cruising types. Some of them even post on the forum :)

Sorry to jump on someone else's posts, but I am looking at BC and portishead around the 30ft either bulge fin or full keels , advice noted about bilge keels, as far as a decent motor a seem to see a lot of what I would call underpowered 10hp boats I'm guessing this would be a problem in and out of portishead with the tidal streams?
 
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