Absolute Best Ankr?

Bouba

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Doesn't sound to me like a well-structured and capable crew complement. Suggest you take your mistress boating, instead. Or someone else's mistress...
Perhaps you're not the 'master and commander' type.
The boat is my only mistress? We have an understanding when the boat is underway I am in charge. But when the anchor goes down so does my authority. My life reverts to normal. The wife, being impatient like all good wives, regards the anchoring time as neutral, which is defined as ‘no man’s land’ in other words, her time?‍♂️??
 

Neeves

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When I've deployed a Fortress in a blow my issue has been retrieving it as it digs in really well. As my windlass is manual I'd rather have chain to haul in (even a shed load) rather than having a huge effort getting the thingie out from halfway to Australia. To me the "good" attributes of a anchor encompass the entire experience, from 1)setting it, 2)confidence in it whilst deployed through to 3)ease of retrieval. Obviously type of boat, size of boat, location, hardware, situation and crew matter, kedging in the Fastnet is a vastly different kettle of fish to lunchtime anchoring in Lulworth, anchoring off Novaya Zemlya or any mix in between. This obviously means there is no one best answer that suits everyone ergo there is not such as a best anchor. for everyone. In the language of quality assurance, the best one is the one that does the job for you with minimum effort and cost.

Jimi,

A man after my own heart

Anchors are a compromise - live with it. An anchor good in sand might be rubbish in weed. One good in weed might be rubbish in soupy mud.

But try to conjure with the idea that actually your chain does not contribute to hold (or so little as to be ignored). If you don't believe this then deploy your shed load of chain without the anchor and see how long you stay in the same location. Do this a number if times and the message will get through. Once you reality sinks in.

I'm also a bit worried about your vessel, lots of chain adds weight in the bow, maybe we could have a debate about that :) - but I'm trying to conjure with how big a vessel you have given that it has a shed perched on the bow - full of chain :). You must be very unpopular in an anchorage where everyone is anchored at a 5:1 scope and you are using 10:1....... :(

Jonathan
 

zoidberg

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I'm also a bit worried about your vessel, lots of chain adds weight in the bow, maybe we could have a debate about that.......

A good friend some years ago bought a Rival 34 and it came with about 120' of 10mm chain. He promptly doubled that, caching the new chain rode in the port cockpit locker. The fuel tank was also on that side.

The boat took on a permanent list. The length of new chain, all 185lb of it, was never once removed from its storage in the decade he had it.
 

jimi

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Jimi,

A man after my own heart

Anchors are a compromise - live with it. An anchor good in sand might be rubbish in weed. One good in weed might be rubbish in soupy mud.

But try to conjure with the idea that actually your chain does not contribute to hold (or so little as to be ignored). If you don't believe this then deploy your shed load of chain without the anchor and see how long you stay in the same location. Do this a number if times and the message will get through. Once you reality sinks in.

I'm also a bit worried about your vessel, lots of chain adds weight in the bow, maybe we could have a debate about that :) - but I'm trying to conjure with how big a vessel you have given that it has a shed perched on the bow - full of chain :). You must be very unpopular in an anchorage where everyone is anchored at a 5:1 scope and you are using 10:1....... :(

Jonathan
I’m worried about your ability to read, I said 5:1 earlier in the thread. Not 10:1. Hope your not a bookie by profession?
 

Neeves

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I’m worried about your ability to read, I said 5:1 earlier in the thread. Not 10:1. Hope your not a bookie by profession?

I read a shed load of chain - maybe instead of questioning my ability to read you might make more useful posts :). I took your wording to mean what it said.

Are you a Hobbit? (I have nothing against Hobbits.)

I should have asked you that from the outset - but it never occurred to me.

5:1 is hardly a shed load of chain, unless you have a very small shed, a very large chain or anchor regularly in 20m depth. In 3m depth 5:1 would be totally inadequate with a CQR in 35 knots - and would never meet my definition of a 'shed load of chain.

Jonathan
 

jimi

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I read a shed load of chain - maybe instead of questioning my ability to read you might make more useful posts :). I took your wording to mean what it said.

Are you a Hobbit? (I have nothing against Hobbits.)

I should have asked you that from the outset - but it never occurred to me.

5:1 is hardly a shed load of chain, unless you have a very small shed, a very large chain or anchor regularly in 20m depth. In 3m depth 5:1 would be totally inadequate with a CQR in 35 knots - and would never meet my definition of a 'shed load of chain.

Jonathan
I refer you to post #18. Do I detect a bit of wriggling with your redefinition of chain requirements ... going from none to 5 times the scope?
this might help your understanding shedload

I'll ignore your inane hobbit remark.
 

Bouba

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I think the most important point is that a motorboat rides better with more weight up front
 

jimi

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I think the most important point is that a motorboat rides better with more weight up front
Some sailing boats also like a bit of weight up front when hard on the wind. TBH a few kg more or less in my anchor locker won't make a blind bit of difference to my sailing;-) Emptying my lazarette of the accumulated crap might! That also holds my get out jail free anchor, an oversized fortress with 5m of chain and 50 metres of 24mm octoplait (which also doubles as a rubbing strake for Baltic box moorings).
 

JumbleDuck

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Now imagine if the anchor is tripped with this same clot of mud in the anchor - it will not re-set until the clog is removed (or almost removed).
I'm not at all convinced. That's a bit like saying that you can't squeeze toothpaste out of a tube it there is any in the nozzle. As the anchor sets it's possible/likely that new seabed just pushes the old stuff out of the way. After all, if water flowing at a few knots can clean the anchor the stuff can't be firmly attached.

And back to the holy wars ...
 

Gary Fox

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I'm not at all convinced. That's a bit like saying that you can't squeeze toothpaste out of a tube it there is any in the nozzle. As the anchor sets it's possible/likely that new seabed just pushes the old stuff out of the way. After all, if water flowing at a few knots can clean the anchor the stuff can't be firmly attached.

And back to the holy wars ...
Good point.
 
D

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I'm not at all convinced. That's a bit like saying that you can't squeeze toothpaste out of a tube it there is any in the nozzle. As the anchor sets it's possible/likely that new seabed just pushes the old stuff out of the way. After all, if water flowing at a few knots can clean the anchor the stuff can't be firmly attached.

And back to the holy wars ...

I think that the clod puts too much weight at the back of the anchor and stops the tip from engaging and starting to dig in. The roll bar adds additional resistance to the clod from easily being displaced. Recollection from an article discussing this elsewhere. It is supposition.

I have recovered a Bruce anchor from one of the KOB anchorages with a clod about twice the size of the anchor. I winched the taught rode until the bow was noticeably lower. While wondering what else to do, the bow rather slowly came up and the anchor could be recovered.
 
D

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Perhaps, but is the clod actually much denser than sea water?

It depends on how saturated a sticky clay ball is. For a material to stick together and not slough a degree of dehydration will have to exist, resulting in far more mineral than water, so quite a bit more. When I build drilling muds using a bentonite clay for viscosity, hardly any change, but add barite and you can easily increase the weight by 50% as a suspended solid. Hence I think sticky clods may have a significant impact. That’s how I see it, think wellies with lots of mud stuck to the soles and how much heavier they are.
 

claymore

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Its clear to me that you are all struggling with this so I will help.

1) When thinking about using an anchor - check that you have a really powerful electric winch with a massive battery attached.
2) When anchoring - get it done very quickly - no farting about checking things like turning circles - if you are going to hit some other boat - well - that is what an anchor watch is for - fending off. Whatever you do, don't start buggering about with all that daft reversing to dig it in malarkey - this is where the whole plan falls apart.
3) With every single link of chain deployed you will increase the efficiency of the anchor because if you have done this like I told you to in 2 above, there will be a massive blob of anchor and chain all nicely in one spot - entangled and unshiftable so you don't have to worry
4) When lifting the anchor employ your really powerful winch and battery referenced in 1 above and then you will feel that it wasn't all a waste of money
5) If you have a problem with 4 above, get a diver or throw the unemployed anchor watcher overboard to sort out the tangle.
QED
 

jimi

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Thanks. Would wellies with sticky mud not still be quite heavy with the same volume of water? Next time I bring up a lump of mud I might try to weigh some.
Maybe a wellie would be the best anchor? They certainly feel difficult to move when stumbling across a wet clay field. The trouble then would be what the best wellie would be. Perhaps a Hunter, it’s got a nice catchy name, green and pretty expensive.so ideal for the average rich yottie with an environmental conscience
 

Neeves

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I refer you to post #18. Do I detect a bit of wriggling with your redefinition of chain requirements ... going from none to 5 times the scope?
this might help your understanding shedload

I'll ignore your inane hobbit remark.

There is a difference between what is possible (that has been confirmed by 2 independent members) and what is more sensible. I am sure that those who have deployed anchors at accidentally short rodes and found subsequently to be perfectly safe will still set their anchors at a more sensible scope. You said, in complete ignorance, it would not work. Open your mind.

Don't be dogmatic, and negative, about things you know nothing about - maybe then you will learn something that one day might be useful.

However your dogmatism did encourage people to post and show you are wrong - so your post was useful. Keep it up.

Jonathan
 

Neeves

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It depends on how saturated a sticky clay ball is. For a material to stick together and not slough a degree of dehydration will have to exist, resulting in far more mineral than water, so quite a bit more. When I build drilling muds using a bentonite clay for viscosity, hardly any change, but add barite and you can easily increase the weight by 50% as a suspended solid. Hence I think sticky clods may have a significant impact. That’s how I see it, think wellies with lots of mud stuck to the soles and how much heavier they are.
Barite is an unusually heavy mineral, or high SG, and, sadly, not likely to be found in profusion, on the seabed. I think all mineral have a higher SG than seawater - that's why they fall to the seabed :). The Density of a clod in an anchor fluke will be heavier than the same volume of seawater. The tension of the rode will compress the clod, removing some of the water. You might notice if you retrieve your anchor that the clod, if you dig into it 'looks' dewatered (and does not wash off easily). If you watch a clogged anchor drag across the seabed it takes a considerable time to self clean (I have watched it a number of times) - it even takes time to clean with a hose with decent nozzle.

What I constantly find surprising is the speed at which a yacht drags - even though it has the deployed rode and anchor dragging on the seabed. The anchor will not re-set until such time as it is almost clean. Convex anchors self clean more quickly.

Jonathan
 

JumbleDuck

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Maybe a wellie would be the best anchor? They certainly feel difficult to move when stumbling across a wet clay field. The trouble then would be what the best wellie would be. Perhaps a Hunter, it’s got a nice catchy name, green and pretty expensive.so ideal for the average rich yottie with an environmental conscience
Hunters are rubbish since they stopped making them in Dumfries and shifted production to China. Didn't change the price, of course.
 
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