Absolute 52 Cruiser vs Trawler

[Portofino]

I bought my boat without ever going out to sea in any boat, had an idea what I, and more importantly, wifey wanted and then phoned around and waited for the right deal on the, to me, right boat.........oh and 348’s always were sheit.

I did the same with my first mobo .....in fact worse I bought the berth first so the boat had to fit beam wise .
Saw it in the Factory in Poole one day , 2 weeks later it arrived at a yard in the CdA .
Thought nothing of it .
A boats a boat after all , just different sizes .
It even had outdrives on it Sunseeker did them , they must know a bit about boats what could possibly go wrong ?

It slammed a bit , we had to slow down , between 9-22 knots the superchargers would whine away ....engineer said don’t spend too much time allowing them to whine .Sometimes , in fact quite a lot it’s gets windy ....you know the Mistral .
So we ended up port bound more times than we expected .
In the yard I noticed a lot of outdrives were being removed and stripped .Bloke said they leak and fill with water .
Shaft drives were out for 3 days quick paint / anodes and dunked back in .

It had a lovely mid cabin for the kids and the deadrise at the stern was flattish because they had to widen it for the interior vol aft .Plus with around 275 Hp ( since found out reading around the subject);to create enough stern lift to lift its 8 tons it needed to be more flat at the stern .

One day we set off only to the Lerins for a lazy day , wind got up and crossing the bay of Cannes was hairy on the return .
I could not plane , only 8 knots bobbing up and down , water splashing in cockpit soaked , boat crashing about .
A Riva 44 cruised past on the plane ....seem just to glide through the chop .WTF !

Next day we are stood in the Riva dealer in Monaco ....there was a 44 out of the water ....nice sales guy stood by it laid the whole “ seakeeping “ thing out there and then ....pointing at the steep deadrise , the hard chimes , the fine entry , the mid position MAN s , the low angle prop shafts , the Rolla props ....Up to then I just thought a boat had a point called the bow and the back bit was called the stern .
Wanted one there and then .....felt a bit duped with S/ Sker if iam honest .
Prob was it only had one cabin and with two kids then in tow ......
Bloke said take a look @ Itama .

Next day we are in St Tropez ....they had loads tied up for charter .Theres a reason why ? = it gets windy and choppy often going round the headland to Pampolone .....You don’t have to cancel due to weather with the Itama ,so the pro s use them .

Within an hour we find ourselves in a huge hanger near Cogolin , which had 3 Itama , 2 pershings , + many more all out .
Two guys this time singing the same tune as the Riva guy ....it’s was as if it’s a little secret.....the seakeeping thing that not many knew about .
Later I found out on this forum it indeed is ....kinda a taboo which I am trying to break ....” don’t mention wave bashing”
Nobodies interested .All they are interested in ( proven by this thread ) is Mid cabins , griddles , decor etc .
Mrs Portofino was getting to end of her tether with going out in a chop .

Long story short I could not believe how an Itama crossed the bay of Naples in a F5 on a test drive .
I asked them if could WOT it ....and turn it to all points of the wind + huge to me waves ...they just laughed and said yes .
It just sliced through without a murmur , not a hint of any slamming .

Since then I always would recommend where possible a test drive .
I get if you are time poor ( I did it as well too and ended up regretting ) it’s tempting to buy off plan so to speak .

Just because it’s possible to buy a boat or high end sports car off plan does not mean it you should.

How ever having done it got the (turned out wet ) tee shirt.........don’t do it that’s my advice.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Porto, I do so enjoy your ‘Itamas are the best boats in the world’ posts. Nothing if not consistent

 

[ShaneAtSea]

Porto, I do so enjoy your ‘Itamas are the best boats in the world’ posts. Nothing if not consistent

Lovely boats. Might get a bit wet with it rains though

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Lovely boats. Might get a bit wet with it rains though

It never rains on an Itama

 

[Portofino]

Sorry guys ! Rabbiting on

But the principle I think sticks ....with try B4 buy .

Having done both .

@ Shane ...remember it’s a Med boat and yes it’s gets wet on the few occasions it rains .The Bimini is full width as no radar arch curving in .Boat owners will know what I mean .

 

[Chris H]

Lovely boats. Might get a bit wet with it rains though

I posted a picture of it a while ago.....

 

[MapisM]

The Bimini is full width as no radar arch curving in .Boat owners will know what I mean.

LOL, yeah, of course we know what a bimini is - either with or without a radar arch.
It's the first thing you do NOT want to bother with, in a liveaboard boat.
Which is the very first requirement mentioned by the OP.

Porto, you know I agree that Amati used to build good boats, and well deserved the reputation he earned because of them.
But even remotely suggesting an open boat to anyone wanting to liveaboard is beyond a joke.

I also beg to differ on the "try before you buy" principle, to some extent.
Most people look at boats - and they actually use them - pretty much as caravans.
You don't, and it's fine, but the differences that you have in mind between the wave bashing capabilities of boats like yours (and some others of the same ilk) vs. the typical flybridges are totally irrelevant to 95% of boaters - myself included.
Also because there's no such thing as a pleasure boat whose seaworthiness limits aren't higher than the limits of her crew.

 

[Portofino]

LOL, yeah, of course we know what a bimini is - either with or without a radar arch.
It's the first thing you do NOT want to bother with, in a liveaboard boat.
Which is the very first requirement mentioned by the OP.

Porto, you know I agree that Amati used to build good boats, and well deserved the reputation he earned because of them.
But even remotely suggesting an open boat to anyone wanting to liveaboard is beyond a joke.

I also beg to differ on the "try before you buy" principle, to some extent.
Most people look at boats - and they actually use them - pretty much as caravans.
You don't, and it's fine, but the differences that you have in mind between the wave bashing capabilities of boats like yours and some others of the same ilk are totally irrelevant to 95% of boaters - myself included.
Also because there's no such thing as a pleasure boat whose seaworthiness limits aren't higher than the limits of her crew.

Hang on , I never advocated he should consider one ....just replying to his well thought out query about rain .
Looking out the window in the U.K. that’s a significant factor .How ever in the Med it isn’t .More so if you have shore side property ,nearby in Antibes ( in relation to La Napoule ) you know , bath , fireplace , proper kitchen , underfloor heating etc etc .

As it happens as you know rain actually does happen in the Med / Summer , but most radar arched sports boats , the arch tapers in and the fwd and rear bimini section width is set by the rad arch width .
Theses design s mean when it rains water wets the seats etc .
Without an arch the builder can make the B frame as wide as he wants .Mine equals the side glass .
So when it rains most under keeps reasonably dry inc the cockpit table + seating .
So it’s not a mad scramble like the S/Sker to get the covers up or endure a wet arse and table cloth , and bread basket .

I know HT s are all the rage but last month it was hot saw 36 in the day , but even at 26 with the glass enclosed HT it gets
unbearable even with the roof open even @ 6 pm .It’s 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another in the Med re ventilation and airflow etc .
Riva too do some big opens .The latest Itama / riva use elecrohydraulic hoods that fold away at the touch of a button .

As for your second point...the test drive .
I think people who don,t just suffer in silence or start thinking about the next boat .
Nobodies gonna say I blew €1M at a show , and then found out the geny is loud , the Airco is crap , you can,t hold a conversation at the back , you can only safely see out standing only .The fridge is hopelessly tiny , it’s a slug mid season , I cant reach one engines filters so I don’t bother , Passerelle is 40 Cm too short , my tender of choice does not fit , theres no where to stow the fenders , the anchor on my mates rib is bigger , when it rains water seeps in round the side hull glazing of the HT , it’s got no rudder indicator , where does the boat hook store , it’got no way of measuring fuel flow ....that’s ok I,ll post yet another fuel consumption Q on the forum .

So go on a nice long test , I disagree with you on the ride as a lot slam early so one has to drop the revs and speed as the wave rise

I get your point about “ caravans “ but it’s been awfully hot this July and some days the “ caravans “ in our marina did not go out .
The stare of daggers as we did and returned after a nice swim to the island where you can always find shelter to anchor , was palpable .

 

[Chris H]

Hang on , I never advocated he should consider one ....just replying to his well thought out query about rain .
Looking out the window in the U.K. that’s a significant factor .How ever in the Med it isn’t .More so if you have shore side property ,nearby in Antibes ( in relation to La Napoule ) you know , bath , fireplace , proper kitchen , underfloor heating etc etc .

As it happens as you know rain actually does happen in the Med / Summer , but most radar arched sports boats , the arch tapers in and the fwd and rear bimini section width is set by the rad arch width .
Theses design s mean when it rains water wets the seats etc .
Without an arch the builder can make the B frame as wide as he wants .Mine equals the side glass .
So when it rains most under keeps reasonably dry inc the cockpit table + seating .
So it’s not a mad scramble like the S/Sker to get the covers up or endure a wet arse and table cloth , and bread basket .

I know HT s are all the rage but last month it was hot saw 36 in the day , but even at 26 with the glass enclosed HT it gets
unbearable even with the roof open even @ 6 pm .It’s 6 of one and 1/2 dozen of another in the Med re ventilation and airflow etc .
Riva too do some big opens .The latest Itama / riva use elecrohydraulic hoods that fold away at the touch of a button .

As for your second point...the test drive .
I think people who don,t just suffer in silence or start thinking about the next boat .
Nobodies gonna say I blew €1M at a show , and then found out the geny is loud , the Airco is crap , you can,t hold a conversation at the back , you can only safely see out standing only .The fridge is hopelessly tiny , it’s a slug mid season , I cant reach one engines filters so I don’t bother , Passerelle is 40 Cm too short , my tender of choice does not fit , theres no where to stow the fenders , the anchor on my mates rib is bigger , when it rains water seeps in round the side hull glazing of the HT , it’s got no rudder indicator , where does the boat hook store , it’got no way of measuring fuel flow ....that’s ok I,ll post yet another fuel consumption Q on the forum .

So go on a nice long test , I disagree with you on the ride as a lot slam early so one has to drop the revs and speed as the wave rise

I get your point about “ caravans “ but it’s been awfully hot this July and some days the “ caravans “ in our marina did not go out .
The stare of daggers as we did and returned after a nice swim to the island where you can always find shelter to anchor , was palpable .

Except......Pershing are better in every area, space ...speed...open/closed.....design Is this millenium...... a bit like TVR vs Mclaren........

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I'll get me popcorn.

? ? ? ? ? ?

That should do.

 

[Portofino]

Except......Pershing are better in every area, space ...speed...open/closed.....design Is this millenium...... a bit like TVR vs Mclaren........

Huh ! Currently made by the same group in the same facility...Forli on the same line with the same blokes .....Ferretti group are not stupid re production.

If you are going back over 15 or 20 years .Amarti as said interviewed prospective owners , if he did not like them he refused to build a boat .Hence most in the 90s era were bespoke . That inc what ever drive system ...Yup Arnesons, Jet s or simple shafts .
.Most are still here , such is the build indeed there’s a whole industry around Roma , inc the old factory that do refurbs .
Thats partly driven by the owners demographics.
This is further supported by as I said professionals using them .In all the usual suspect ( stars + celebs ) haunts they charter them ,
St Trop , Balearics , Corsica , Sardinia , Naples etc etc

Pershings old and newer FG group ( which I think yours is btw ) are nice boats , but the Med style / pro / star market is “open “to all .No pun intended .

As is said Chris for me it’s been a learn curve in a cart before the horse way .
But the Riva dealer in Monaco and Chris from Suncap in St Trop put me on to Itama .....then when I got to Naples .

The old factory Btw still do them under the brand XL yachts .But mostly do refurbs .
Here is a Anrneson 51 , same as yours .....erh with a HT ....because it’s bespoke as I said .

Here’s a Amarti 70 on jets a 50 knot boat over 20 years ago ( sorry a German test )




Above ....King of a certain Middle East country ( clue is in the boat name Chris ) Amarti made this ...it’s a triple engine boat btw ...not that fuel consumption would an issue for this customer .It followed his then SY around .Why did he choose Itama ?

Or below what about this a certain guy previously close to Ferrari F1 and indeed a player in the FG group board , remember he could pick anything .......it’s the red one btw .




As far as large HT sporty boats go like Pershings......if I was in that market knowing what I know now 15 years in the Med , It would not be a Pershing nice as they are ......I would be looking at AB on Jets or Otam on Arnies
Otam do bespoke high end .Baia is another worthy candidate.....carbon fibre lightness hulls theses two .
Theres a certain mass production element about the current P line up .
Bigger then it’s a Mangusta on jets .
Advantage of jets over Arnies .....I think you have discovered in your first proper outing .
You can not blow your engines up like you did attempting to run with fouled stern gear.
They don’t suffer from fouling and if they did ( what little in the dark ) because the dia is tiny the torque of the engines can cope .You do not have to have the stern gear regularly cleaned up before you use the boat .Take a look at a AB 57 for example.

Chris I think you need to get a few years under your belt of watching , listening and learning ....the boats running all around you In the CdA . .

I was thinking about your engine fix .Get a MAN guy to install this new turbo ...there will be fine nuances .Its just if water from the jacket mixed with the air ! Not good .
Remember I did say in a thread find a 1100 or 1000 Hp version of that size P because the 800 is a bit short of horses to spin those big pitched props imho .

leave you all to reflect on this ......

it’s not how fast you go, but how you go fast,

 

[Bouba]

The one thing about Pershings is they are recognizable. My wife can spot a Pershing, every other boat often leaves us both scratching our heads as to what it might be.

 

[PilotWolf]

Bells and whistles, that's exactly what you do NOT want in a boat, to make your life easier.

I not trying to be mean but if you need all those to dock do you think you’re ready to head to Florida?

W.

 

[Bouba]

I not trying to be mean but if you need all those to dock do you think you’re ready to head to Florida?

W.

The Navetta 52 is a tall slab sided boat. And I mean really tall. The slightest wind would probably give you trouble. The OP has admitted he’s a newbie looking for experience, the object of the technology is for a beginner to start with a bigger boat. If we are time poor but money rich I think it’s the way to go. We can’t go back twenty years and start with a 18 foot skiff, we need comfort ?️

 

[PilotWolf]

Im a british citizen however i will be out of the country for over 6 months of the year. Im not really gonna go into details on here.

I will not be paying British/EU 20% VAT for a boat i buy in the USA......i'll guarantee you that

Don’t forget unless you have US residency rights then the most time you can spend here is going to be 6 months.

Also if US flagged you must use US citizens as crew if they’re paid.

W.

 

[Portofino]

The Navetta 52 is a tall slab sided boat. And I mean really tall. The slightest wind would probably give you trouble. The OP has admitted he’s a newbie looking for experience, the object of the technology is for a beginner to start with a bigger boat. If we are time poor but money rich I think it’s the way to go. We can’t go back twenty years and start with a 18 foot skiff, we need comfort ?

Just hire suitable training or buy in lad or lass to helm it .......a conventional shaft + what ever thruster(s)

You are missing the “ when it all works “ side of the argument against.....then whats Mr cash , but zero patience do ?

 

[Bouba]

Just hire suitable training or buy in lad or lass to helm it .......a conventional shaft + what ever thruster(s)

You are missing the “ when it all works “ side of the argument against.....then whats Mr cash , but zero patience do ?

Yes, that is another way to do it

 

[MapisM]

Or below what about this a certain guy previously close to Ferrari F1 and indeed a player in the FG group board , remember he could pick anything .......it’s the red one btw.

R U sure? Afaik, his boat is called Mediterraneo, which doesn't look to be the name of the one in your pic.
Regardless, if I should look for a testimonial, widely recognised as a boat connoisseur, that chap ain't among the first thousand of names that would spring to my mind - and I'm putting it politely.

 

[MapisM]

Remember I did say in a thread find a 1100 or 1000 Hp version of that size P because the 800 is a bit short of horses to spin those big pitched props imho.

I don't think they ever installed the 1100 V10 CRM engine on the 52, and neither the 1000hp which was a much older mechanical V12.
They did install the semi-electronic 1050 V10, an engine I'd rather run than walk away from.

That said, by and large I agree that the P52 could use more power. But the problem is rather in the Arnies than in the boat,
The P52 hull was considered one of their best back in the 90s, when they only used shafts, with the 680hp V8 first, and the 800hp later (essentially the same engine back then, built till 2004, which both myself and Chris have in our boats.
And in THAT setup, even the 680hp was more than good enough.

But later on, punters began to feel attracted by the rooster tail, and the rest is history...

 

[Portofino]

R U sure? Afaik, his boat is called Mediterraneo, which doesn't look to be the name of the one in your pic.
Regardless, if I should look for a testimonial, widely recognised as a boat connoisseur, that chap ain't among the first thousand of names that would spring to my mind - and I'm putting it politely.

Yes it was his “ favourite “ ......I’d have thought he knows his onions with boats .
Yacht miliardari a Capri, arrivano gli arabi, ma la vera star è lo yacht di Steve Jobs - Capri Press

edit go to bottom of the article ^^^