90/180 days

jacaldo

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Stamps are irrelevant. Did they scan your passport when you left?
They did, on exit from Greece and entry to the UK, but I have been told that as yet there is no shared data for entry and exit. Until ETIAS is up and running we will have to rely on stamps? I hope your right though.
Thanks
 

Sandy

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Just returned from 3 weeks sailing in Greece. Stamped into Greece on arrival so this will start the 180 day count down. Not stamped out in Greece on our way home, and no stamp in at UK border control.
So going by the passport stamp we are still in Greece, this means we are still using our Shengen allowance and in turn we will be wasting valuable days allowance. How do you stop and start the 90/180 days?
Hope this makes sense and I'm not repeating a question already asked.
We made sure we were stamped into and out of France. My condolences.
 

webcraft

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When we left Portugal in May I asked the nice customs man not to stamp my passport because I was a Portuguese resident. He absentmindedly stamped it anyway, and when I pointed out I had asked him not to he as pologised. My wife's passport was subsequently not stamped.

I have no idea what implications here are (if any) for our future non-Portugal Schengen visits, and neither I imagine does anyone else at this point.

I suspect the placid will be mostly facilitated or left alone and that the stroppy will suffer - certainly that has so far been my experience of EU bureaucracy.

- W
 

Graham376

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Stamps are at present your only (concrete) way to defend yourself if challenged.
Yes but, those with residence in one state should not have their passports stamped anyway when in transit through others. This from EU but no doubt border jobsworths will do what they want -

We have consulted the Directorate-General for Justice and Consumers (DG JUST). They can inform you that when transiting via another country than the Member State of residence, passports should not be stamped on entry/exit.
 

greeny

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Lets see what happens at Faro on Sunday. I'm resident here in Portugal and am flying to Germany via Netherlands. Previously, prior to brexit, there wasn't even a passport check on that flight for us other than at checkin. I suspect that nothing will have changed so we'll see what happens.
 

westernman

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Lets see what happens at Faro on Sunday. I'm resident here in Portugal and am flying to Germany via Netherlands. Previously, prior to brexit, there wasn't even a passport check on that flight for us other than at checkin. I suspect that nothing will have changed so we'll see what happens.
A couple of weeks ago it was quite a palava flying from Paris to Thessaloniki. At check-in they wanted an EU covid pass or a very recent official test result and a passenger locator form as well as passports. On arrival in Greece they very carefully checked all that all over again.

Leaving Greece, needed an EU covid pass or a very recent test (in this case my Godson had to take a test in Greece) at check in.
On arrival in Paris, all this checked again. However, no passenger locator form required in this direction.
 

BurnitBlue

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Just for information I arrived in Greece two days ago via Denmark cph landing in Athens. What I found unusual was that nobody was interested in my passport (British). I had to cross the Danish border because no direcr flights from Sweden to Greece then arrival in Athens. Admiitted I was alresdy inside Schengen but I had always shown my passport on demand. This year the queues at the airports were about the EU covid Passport and the plf form only.

One tip, take paper copies. I did not and relied on my phone but because of a landing delay at Athens because of a complete power outage my flight was delayed in cph which almost ran the battery down. At Athens there was a "fish run" through a winding set of barriers designed to delay passengers from arriving at control all at once. When I did arrive my phone was on emergency dim. No problem, the covid passport and the plf were given a casual glance no scan of the Qr code and was passed on direct to baggage claim. Many were not so lucky and had to pass through a number of queues for a testing cubicle before proceeding. Nobody was interested in my passport.

The tempreature is 43 degrees centigrade in the shade. Warnings are out to take care. In the boatyard going below is imossible. The mini buss to town is not running for the rest of 2021. No food. This temperature is expected to last another 6 days when it will return to 34C. All my carefully made plans I made sitting in my cool armchair at home are worthless in the climate and social situation. All boat batteries are dead and chandlers are having emergency supplies shipped in.

I managed the buy one 100ah exide battery today. I was so exhausted getting the thing aboard, that it and the heat, wiped me out for the rest of the day.
 

BurnitBlue

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Got carried away with complaints about the heat wave. I asked the boat yard boss what he thinks about the 90/180 rule for Brits. Bearing in mind that the majority of private boats in his boatyard are owned by Brits. He said that it was a concern the Brit boats being launched are not booking their spot for return. But the slack is being taken up by charter boats at the moment who are on special deals so it will make an impact. He added that at the moment nothing is being done about it yet if it makes a significant impact on Greek Tourism, some solution may be found.

This is not encouriging for any change soon. However talking to the very few peple here it seems an exodus is already underway. Because of the ompossible August heat I will make an effort to join them. One job a day is my limit. I will attend to the jobs like underwater things and engine, then launch and complete the jobs elsewhwe. Maybe Italy covid permitting.
 

BurnitBlue

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While I am concerned about the 90/180 i am more concerned about the way travel documentation is being used as an automatic situation with immediate spin-off instructions. My flight to Greece was for 27th July. All plans made and bags packed when I got an urgent message email and text from SASAirlines just 24 hours earlier on the 26th July. They stated that new compliance with the rules meant that I could not get my boarding pass until the airline had received and validated the Covid passport and PLF acceptance. I had to send them by camera or file to email to get my boarding pass. No boarding pass no flight for anyone. I received a quick reply in about 4 hours that my photo was too fuzzy to read by their Qrcode reader. They asked I photo the complete passport, Nd also sign the form giving SAS permission to access my medical records. I sent them six copies. A reply soon arrived that they had verified the documents and I had permission to download my boarding pass.

Next year when all the software is up and running for Schengen I expect everyone including member state residents to have their passports stamped on entry to other and possible resident states because the software will have the data on file to ignore the stamps via bimetric scanning of residents passports and in one swoop solve the confusion at border crossings. Until next year don't worry.

Edit the inside boat temp is down to 35C so I am off to get some sleep if possible. 2am here.
 

Beneteau381

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While I am concerned about the 90/180 i am more concerned about the way travel documentation is being used as an automatic situation with immediate spin-off instructions. My flight to Greece was for 27th July. All plans made and bags packed when I got an urgent message email and text from SASAirlines just 24 hours earlier on the 26th July. They stated that new compliance with the rules meant that I could not get my boarding pass until the airline had received and validated the Covid passport and PLF acceptance. I had to send them by camera or file to email to get my boarding pass. No boarding pass no flight for anyone. I received a quick reply in about 4 hours that my photo was too fuzzy to read by their Qrcode reader. They asked I photo the complete passport, Nd also sign the form giving SAS permission to access my medical records. I sent them six copies. A reply soon arrived that they had verified the documents and I had permission to download my boarding pass.

Next year when all the software is up and running for Schengen I expect everyone including member state residents to have their passports stamped on entry to other and possible resident states because the software will have the data on file to ignore the stamps via bimetric scanning of residents passports and in one swoop solve the confusion at border crossings. Until next year don't worry.

Edit the inside boat temp is down to 35C so I am off to get some sleep if possible. 2am here.
As ive said before, Portugal computer recognises my passport and the fact that i have residence papers. The stamp is a red herring, the computer reader is the final authority
 

BurnitBlue

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As ive said before, Portugal computer recognises my passport and the fact that i have residence papers. The stamp is a red herring, the computer reader is the final autho
My narrative was to show a Schengen to Schengine transit across two borders. I was not asked fpr my passport. The only officials I met were airport staff in Denmark and a half a dozen police in Greece. I was not asked for my residence card either. My return will no doubt be similar. Unless I make it out of the EU somewhere.
 

Beneteau381

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My narrative was to show a Schengen to Schengine transit across two borders. I was not asked fpr my passport. The only officials I met were airport staff in Denmark and a half a dozen police in Greece. I was not asked for my residence card either. My return will no doubt be similar. Unless I make it out of the EU somewhere.
Looking good then
 

greeny

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Sunday - so far so good.
I've just flown from Faro to Schiphol. I used my "biometric" Portuguese ID card as proof of ID at check in.
No passport check, no border control. Nobody anywhere to stamp my passport on leaving my country of residence and entering the wider Schengen. They only wanted to see my ID and proof of vaccination at Faro and nothing at all when arriving in Schiphol. Next flight in 2 hours from Schiphol to Hamburg and I'll try to use Portuguese ID card again.
My wife flew with me and used her UK passport as ID at check in. Again, check in not really interested and no border control checks at all.
The whole of Europe are now accepting the full green vaccination cert for flying within Schengen and no testing required if you've got it.
Onward and upward.

Update today:-
Made the second leg of the journey to Germany and again no passport checks for either of us. Only a cursory glance at wife's passport and my ID card by the boarding staff at the boarding gate in Schiphol as our photo ID. No scanning of passports or ID card anywhere on the trip.
So for the time being, in my experience, it's business as usual in Europe for travelling. No 90 day clock ticking anywhere. Only if you leave schengen do you pass through a border control check it seems.
Of course it maybe that ETIAS will change all that when it gets introduced but I'll cross that bridge when it comes.
 

goeasy123

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Don't know if this reply is directed at me, but I will answer as if it is. I'm well aware of the necessary travel arrangements that were required to visit Greece while we (UK) were part of the European Union. As you say Schengen has been in place for many years and even though we (UK) were not part of it we did have rights to travel and work in Schengen countries without having to abide by a 90/180 day rule. It is since Brexit that problems have started with no one actually knowing what proof is required to stop/start the 90/180 day rule.
As I mentioned in my original post, we had our passports stamped on entry to Greece and I actually thought our passports would be stamped on entry back in to the UK, to prove we had left Schengen, this is not the case and the very nice border control man at Manchester didn't know what to suggest, that is why I have asked the question. Oh and by the way, I'm not looking for sympathy, just some advice.
The rules are simple. EU immigration holds the 3rd country traveler responsible for providing proof. There is only one type of proof. That is an EU stamp, either in or out. You are responsible for getting the requisite stamps. A stamp by UK immigration has no validity in the EU. It is not accepted as proof, neither are receipts, paid parking fines or any other type of 3rd party document.
 

nortada

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The rules are simple. EU immigration holds the 3rd country traveler responsible for providing proof. There is only one type of proof. That is an EU stamp, either in or out. You are responsible for getting the requisite stamps. A stamp by UK immigration has no validity in the EU. It is not accepted as proof, neither are receipts, paid parking fines or any other type of 3rd party document.
Goeasy, so how do you suggest that jacaldo should proceed to confirm his departure from the EU (a visit to the nearest Greek Embassy or consulate) or are you suggesting that the situation is irrevocable?

Suspect many other Brits returning to the UK could find themselves in a similar situation.

It will be interesting to see how the system resolves the situation of a resident, stamped departing the Schengen from another EU State. To the system it will appear that although he never arrived in the EU, he has just left.

Little doubt there will be other anomalies.
 
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BurnitBlue

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The rules are simple. EU immigration holds the 3rd country traveler responsible for providing proof. There is only one type of proof. That is an EU stamp, either in or out. You are responsible for getting the requisite stamps. A stamp by UK immigration has no validity in the EU. It is not accepted as proof, neither are receipts, paid parking fines or any other type of 3rd party document.
If a Traveller embarks on a Flight out of Schengen it is the responsibility of that member state to log that event using the passport biometric stuff that is scanned from the passport. The stamp in a Passport is a Legacy of old procedures. Useful in a way but unnecessary with todays data banks. The stamp is not proof because it in no way can the stamp alone log you out of Schengen data base. It is their problem. If you have proof that you took that flight and arrived in UK then there is no problem.

If concern is for the next arrival at a Schengen border then that concern will be shared with those that had a stamp because there is no gaurantee that having a stamp means the passport was scanned on the way out. If it is not scanned the traveller remains in Schengen. It cannot possibly be the responsibilty of the traveller to ensure his departure is logged in the database. Do not allow the authorities to hand you their problem for the ridiculous situation where a border is not a border between Schengen Member States but is a border for third party countries. It is their responsibility to amend the data base depending on whether the border is a border. An individual has no access to the data base.
 
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syvictoria

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Some here are maybe forgetting that none of this system is new. It has been working for decades for other third country nationals.
 

st599

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The Schengen Database doesn't include a register border crossings. From Wikipedia:
"The type of data about people kept in SIS includes: requests for extradition; undesirability of presence in particular territory; minor age; mental illnesses; missing person status; a need for protection; requests by a judicial authority; and suspected of crime. The SIS also keeps data referring to lost, stolen and misappropriated firearms, identity documents, motor vehicles and banknotes."

The automated smart border functionality will come about when Entry/Exit System is fully implemented. The EU commission FAQ on EES states it is due in Q1 2022 and that it will replace Passport Stamps for 3rd country nationals. So until it's live, Passport Stamps are still required.

Entry-Exit-System - Wikipedia
 
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