Pelagic Autopilot

[oilybilge]

Has anyone bought one of these from the USA? If they are as robust and reliable as people say then $986 inc delivery seems like a decent price. (well, plus customs duty) According to the website the current lead time is 3 weeks. Not that I'm in a hurry, but I do hear mutterings about supply issues. I was wondering if anyone here has successfully bought and used one?

The alternative is the Ev-100 by Raymarine, currently available at £1320 from Hudson Marine. But there are so many stories about their rams going phut. It's a shame, because I like the idea of a standalone compass that can be safely housed below deck.

This is for my long-keeled, wooden, 24-footer, weighing three tons, with a transom hung rudder. I previously had a TP22 but it went mad and steered me around in circles, so I'm looking for something a bit more trustworthy. All thoughts appreciated!

 

[Tranona]

Both of those are overkill for your size boat. The EV is the price it is because it has features that are probably of no value to you as it uses the same control units and processor as used on the below decks system. So unless you want to interface with your other instruments nd chart plotter, most of that is wasted for you. Equally the ram is rated for boats twice the displacement of yours. The 2000 or the TP 32 is much more appropriate as a step up from what you have now. The Pelagic is a very basic system designed for the simple heavy tiller steered boats that are more popular in the US - the Westsail 32 they use in their publicity gives an idea. They have never made any attempt to sell in Europe, partly because the sorts of boats and types of use that they are good for are not so popular here and partly because whatever you may hear about them the 2 providers here do an acceptable job.

There is no doubt with today's technology it would be possible to make a better autopilot for small tiller steered boats, but the potential market is tiny compared with larger wheel steered boat which is where all the developments are. The EV takes advantage of all the control developments from the wheel steered types and the drive is satisfactory for the types of boat it is aimed at.

BTW Hudson also have the Autohelm 2000 on offer for under £500 which seems like a good deal.

 

[oilybilge]

Thanks Tranona. I know both units are overpowered for my 3-tonner but is that a problem? Are you saying they wouldn't be able to cope with the way my boat responds? (Edit: FWIW, the Pelagic website shows their autopilots mounted on an Ericson 26, a Moore 24, and an Express 27, all much lighter boats than mine)

I'm not eager to take a punt on another all-in-one unit. I know some people get lucky and enjoy years of trouble-free service with them but a lot of people don't, myself included. From everything I've read the Pelagic is more reliable and that's my top priority.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Most of the people using it are west coast transpac solo sailors and it's built by one of their mates hence the great press. The ram is available direct from china for $25 us. It's a standard ram used for opening blinds and tilting beds. Nothing special at all. I know because I bought one from Pelagic to have a look before deciding whether to buy the whole thing.
There is a European company doing the same thing with the same rams but I can't find the link right now.

Your TP22 and the 32 can be connected to a NMEA network to use a networked heading sensor and wind data. This is what I do. I can also steer to a waypoint set in my VHF radio! I never do that.
I know a twister owner with the EVO and he loves it so I'm not knocking it but for the price you can have 3 tiller pilots.

 

[fredrussell]

Oilybilge, I’m in the same boat (apols) as you, thinking of a new TP, as my 2000+ is not amazing. Have a look at the thread posted on here recently re tillerpilots. Concerto has put a clip on of his EVO100 steering his boat in rougher conditions and it’s quite interesting. There’s a bit where a gust hits, the boat heels, and the reaction time of the TP is very impressive. The unit is reacting to the heel, rather than the subsequent change of direction- as an ‘old school’ unit would. Worth a look:

Autopilots v tiller pilots

 

[Daydream believer]

Unfortunately I cannot comment on your Pelagic but I can comment on the alternatives
I am on my 7Th version, or repair, of autopilot on my tiller steered boat in 18 years . The best was the Simrads but they burned out. I have a Raymarine av100 & it is a death trap. For example if I have a quartering sea & the boat wants to broach on a 2 metre wave in, say, a F6 because the ram cannot anticipate or react quick enough ( Understandable- a helmsman would just tweak the helm & stop the broach before it happened) But once the boat goes 70 degrees off course the pilot cuts out & the tiller stays hard over.( Raymarine know this) Now if I am below & do not realise what has happened the boat then comes back on course but because the tiller is still hard over it gybes. Not what one wants in F6. I have had this happen a lot of times & it can catch me out really badly.
Apart form that I have had new displays & a new ram for it. I have also had to pay £300 for the dealer to visit to upgrade the software because I do not have a chart plotter to download it myself. Hence he had to bring one to down load it. A bit of a cheek from Raymarine because it should be free.
I have a spare raymarine st2000 that does not cut out & does eventually bring the boat back on course ( this is my 4th one though). It should be OK for your boat but I recommend the Simrad as the best. The 2 I had lasted the longest & worked OK
In rough weather I resort to my aeries. Sails the boat upwind like a dream & although it sails all over the place down wind, it never fails & in heavy weather I know that I can rely on it not to break down.

 

[awol]

I got fed up with ST2000+s after I fried 2 of them, main and spare, on a trip to Barra in quite large waves. Not really a surprise as they are under- specced for my boat. An autopsy showed distorted casing and absence of rubber buffers. A previous TP32 suffered water ingress and totally expired after a period of random course changes. For the last 3 years I have had a Pelagic and under sail it is a joy - copes well with spinnaker and quartering seas - not so good at wind steering connected to an ST50 - no GPS connection so compass course. The 1st season I mounted the control box at the back of the cockpit and under motor, after a few minutes over 5kts, it started snaking. Slower was ok. I moved the control box inside the boat and got the remote control gizmo and problem is almost gone. Over the last 2 seasons I have never had the opportunity, with another bod on board, to spend the time adjusting the plethora of parameters.
One of this winter's jobs is to wire in switching to swap to the ST2000 control card - it uses ST50 compass and wind with a GPS connection for waypoints - still using the Pelagic ram, for motoring in the flat calms that seem to be becoming more prevalent.
Support from California has been good with occasional software enhancements and Whatsapp calls to the designer (after 4pm). Software loading is via USB from PC.
Conclusion - not perfect but gives me much more confidence than either TP32 or ST2000+.

 

[pandos]

Thanks Tranona. I know both units are overpowered for my 3-tonner but is that a problem? Are you saying they wouldn't be able to cope with the way my boat responds? (Edit: FWIW, the Pelagic website shows their autopilots mounted on an Ericson 26, a Moore 24, and an Express 27, all much lighter boats than mine)

I'm not eager to take a punt on another all-in-one unit. I know some people get lucky and enjoy years of trouble-free service with them but a lot of people don't, myself included. From everything I've read the Pelagic is more reliable and that's my top priority.

I am pretty sure the pelagic ram is a UK manufactered unit. I have no time now but on other forums there was a thread about them and sourcing a cheaper alternative.

I think Google lens will take you to the supplier....

A tiny py pilot may be an option if you like amateur open source stuff. pypilot store

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I am pretty sure the pelagic ram is a UK manufactered unit. I have no time now but on other forums there was a thread about them and sourcing a cheaper alternative.

I think Google lens will take you to the supplier....

A tiny py pilot may be an option if you like amateur open source stuff. pypilot store

Its made in China. I've linked the original source with their bulk prices on here in the past.


I tried to get an old ST1000 to drive it but the PCB was shot and I wasn't going to buy a new one.


Here is the manufactures website: China Furniture Linear Actuator, Waterproof Linear Actuator, Track Linear Actuator Manufacturers, Suppliers, Factory - Hongba

 

[awol]

Its made in China. I've linked the original source with their bulk prices on here in the past.

View attachment 128815
I tried to get an old ST1000 to drive it but the PCB was shot and I wasn't going to buy a new one.


Here is the manufactures website: China Furniture Linear Actuator, Waterproof Linear Actuator, Track Linear Actuator Manufacturers, Suppliers, Factory - Hongba

That looks uncannily like my work surface! My ST2000 boards were working the last time I looked. Thanks for the link - the colonials want silly money tro import and export the same thing.

 

[KompetentKrew]

I have a Pelagic actuator paired with a Raymarine control unit - a SmartPilot, the previous generation to the Evo - and am incredibly pleased with it. I have used it in conditions to force 7 at least, and it performed flawlessly singlehanding Biscay on a beam reach in force 6.

The great thing about Pelagic actuators is that spares are so affordable - although I don't think quite so cheaply as @Buck Turgidson says; I have a quote here for $610 for 8, which is the minimum order quality (admittedly this is the model with a feedback potentiometer, but I doubt that adds much to the price). VAT and import duty will also be payable, nevertheless it is much cheaper than Raymarine's Q047 and at least as good.

Manufacturer is the Wuxi Hongba Mechanical Electrical Equipment Co., aka WXHongba. They have a couple of websites, but are presently slow responding to my emails.

EDIT: mean to add this pic for the benefit of @pandos:

This is the original ram I received from Pelagic in the US, and you can see their sticker at the bottom; you'll see the logo at the top left of the label matches up with the logo on Wuxi Hongba's site, as does the part number.

When supplied from Pelagic there is a mounting bracket that Wuxi Hongba don't offer - I couldn't find an exact match when I looked online last year, but you could have one fabricated from stainless plate. With the mounting bracket and pin the Pelagic actuator is a drop-in replacement for Raymarine's Q047.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

I have a Pelagic actuator paired with a Raymarine control unit - a SmartPilot, the previous generation to the Evo - and am incredibly pleased with it. I have used it in conditions to force 7 at least, and it performed flawlessly singlehanding Biscay on a beam reach in force 6.

The great thing about Pelagic actuators is that spares are so affordable - although I don't think quite so cheaply as @Buck Turgidson says; I have a quote here for $610 for 8, which is the minimum order quality (admittedly this is the model with a feedback potentiometer, but I doubt that adds much to the price). VAT and import duty will also be payable, nevertheless it is much cheaper than Raymarine's Q047 and at least as good.

Manufacturer is the Wuxi Hongba Mechanical Electrical Equipment Co., aka WXHongba. They have a couple of websites, but are presently slow responding to my emails.

Does the feedback sensor work with the control unit? That's another £300 value if it does.

 

[KompetentKrew]

Does the feedback sensor work with the control unit? That's another £300 value if it does.

Wuxi Hongba offer two versions, with hall effect sensor and potentiometer.

With the hall effect sensor the control unit would need to count, and keep track of, the number of pulses to know the position of the ram.

A neighbour tells me that there's an open source autopilot - it might be the PyPilot mentioned by @pandos - that allows the use of any value of potentiometer; presumably you set the value of the pot and the actuator's length of travel as parameters in the configuration, and it calculates the rudder angle based on those. He mentioned the OpenPlotter forum. Apparently some guys there are using this actuator arm from PCNautic which looks very similar to WX Hongba's but which is slightly different dimensions; I believe it has a pot.

Looks like the Raymarine rudder angle transducer contains more than one pot, so the WX Hongba won't be plug-in compatible. I'm hoping that the Raymarine EVO will accept rudder position information over NMEA, in which case I would use an arduino (or similar) to read the pot value and calculate it. Otherwise it may be possible to construct an analogue circuit to clone Raymarine's output.

 

[pandos]

This is the heavier duty Pelagic, seems to be same as many of the mainstream. HYpro seems to be a UK based company that sells a huge range of autopilot related stuff.

 

[pandos]

A neighbour tells me that there's an open source autopilot - it might be the PyPilot mentioned by @pandos - which allows the use of any value of potentiometer..

Afaik the Pypilot controller can rely on overcurrent to tell when the steering has reached its end stops, but also there is a simple angle sensor available.

 

[Tranona]

View attachment 128829View attachment 128830

This is the heavier duty Pelagic, seems to be same as many of the mainstream. HYpro seems to be a UK based company that sells a huge range of autopilot related stuff.

These are below deck drives, not tiller pilots that are the subject of this thread.

 

[pandos]

These are below deck drives, not tiller pilots that are the subject of this thread.

You are correct, but they could probably be fitted to OPs boat. Many tiller steered boats use below deck rams...they would be overkill, but might be of interest to others attracted to the thread by the title.

 

[Tranona]

You are correct, but they could probably be fitted to OPs boat. Many tiller steered boats use below deck rams...they would be overkill, but might be of interest to others attracted to the thread by the title.

Unlikely - and the literature specifically says for below decks fitting. One of the challenges for autopilots on tiller steered boats is that you have to attach the ram to the tiller, whereas on a wheel steered boat it is attached to the quadrant and is independent of the wheel. Where you can access the rudder stock below the tiller then you can use a below decks drive as you see on some tiller steered boats. However this is rare as either the stock is in a tube all the way up or is transom hung. Equally tiller steered boats above 6 tonnes displacement are rare and the currently available systems are a good design solution. The issue is that apart from the EVO there has been no investment in design or manufacturing for over 20 years because the demand is low and the known issues of robustness and reliability have not been addressed.

 

[fredrussell]

I think B & G do a tiller pilot ram, that is controlled by a NAC2 (?) ‘brain’. It uses a rudder position sensor I believe, but it’s not cheap. I think also that NKE offer an upmarket TP package.

Edit: would this from B & G work as an above deck tiller pilot:

B&G, Simrad SD10 Mechanical Drive Unit Up to 7,000kg Displacement - 000-13697-001

 

[Pye_End]

26ft long keel boat - many moons ago I went for Raymarine 4000+ tiller pilot and have not looked back. Response time, poke, longevity all superior to the 'all in one' tiller pilots at the time. Presume the EV-100 is the current equivalent. The TP (1000) before it was only really good for motoring or fairly gently sailing. This one will cope with all weather and sail angles. Would recommend.