Will Schengen be suspended for two or three years.

[Graham376]

It's a funny old world, migration. Too many Brits prefer benefit to menial jobs so, the Portuguese (and others) come over and do them for far more pay than at home and Brazilians do the jobs in Portugal that the Portuguese don't want to do. When speaking to hoteliers in N Wales about the numbers of foreign staff (lots of Poles) the reply is they can't get the staff locally although numbers of locals drawing dole are high. Another frequent comment is that most foreign workers are hard grafters, they want to earn as much as possible and then eventually head back home.

 

[BurnitBlue]

Yes they may well recognise how well they have been treated by the UK and think about reciprocating.

Latest Home Office estimates suggest that 5m EU citizens will apply for eventual settled status. I wonder what attracts them to want to live in the UK rather than in the apparently utopian EU?

I can answer that question. After 2016 referendum people in EU were shocked and deeply hurt. I know this for a fact regarding Swedes and also Greeks where my boat is. This was understandable like I suppose English people feel about the break up of the UK via the SNP. However, as the EU floundered on many issues like immigration, the economic crises needing a massive booster package, the failure to actually get the booster package to the countries like Italy, the objection of the frugal four trying to stop it. Then came the vaccine fiasco which UK weathered almost effortlessly. The UK was forgiven and instead became an object of admiration and a role model to follow.

Two alternatives. Get their governments to explore article 50 or realise that would be a dream and a long way away or take a quick route, put on the Seven League Boots and take giant steps across the channel for UK residence. Best of both worlds. As EU citizen they retain freedom of movement in the EU and enjoy the happiness in the UK that is priceless among really nice people in a multi racial mixed varied population who still retain the spirit of adventure. I could go on but ... well that will do for now.

 

[Koeketiene]

If my personal experiences are anything to go by - they had jobs in the UK prior to the referendum and applied for settled status as a prudent thing to do when the scheme was launched.

A good number of them have since returned to thier home country (in the EU) to progress thier careers

We applied for settled status as soon as the scheme was launched even though we knew we'd retire to France.
As we have relatives who 'stayed behind' we want to be able to return to the UK at some point in the future to be near them.
Keeping all our options open seemed like a sensible thing to do.

 

[nortada]

I can answer that question. After 2016 referendum people in EU were shocked and deeply hurt. I know this for a fact regarding Swedes and also Greeks where my boat is. This was understandable like I suppose English people feel about the break up of the UK via the SNP. However, as the EU floundered on many issues like immigration, the economic crises needing a massive booster package, the failure to actually get the booster package to the countries like Italy, the objection of the frugal four trying to stop it. Then came the vaccine fiasco which UK weathered almost effortlessly. The UK was forgiven and instead became an object of admiration and a role model to follow.

Two alternatives. Get their governments to explore article 50 or realise that would be a dream and a long way away or take a quick route, put on the Seven League Boots and take giant steps across the channel for UK residence. Best of both worlds. As EU citizen they retain freedom of movement in the EU and enjoy the happiness in the UK that is priceless among really nice people in a multi racial mixed varied population who still retain the spirit of adventure. I could go on but ... well that will do for now.

I agree but would suggest that many English do not care what the Scots may do and may well support them in their bid for independence.

It is the establishment and politicians who resist Scottish Independence as it could reduce their span of power.

The same reason why the majority of Parliament resisted Brexit - loss of power and prestige and the money that inevitably goes with it.

 

[syvictoria]

Yes they may well recognise how well they have been treated by the UK and think about reciprocating.

Latest Home Office estimates suggest that 5m EU citizens will apply for eventual settled status. I wonder what attracts them to want to live in the UK rather than in the apparently utopian EU?

Not all EU citizens have been treated well, with the detentions reported in the news just this week being described as 'Grossly disproportionate'. I appreciate that these individuals didn't have settled status as is being discussed here. However, equally, popular opinion here seems to be that the EU should be lenient on Brits that bend the rules...

The bloc’s representatives attended the first Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee with the UK in February, and at that meeting, both sides had stressed the importance of communication and upholding citizens’ rights.
“Unfortunately,” the Renew Group MEPs wrote, “detention of young and often low-risk EU citizens arriving in the UK for summer jobs and not yet being fully aware of entry conditions is not in line with this statement and the spirit of good cooperation that we would expect.
“We are deeply concerned by these events and we call on the Commission to urgently address this issue in the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee.”
President Dacian Cioloş also called UK Border Force’s actions “grossly disproportionate”, adding: “There would rightly be outrage if this was reciprocated for UK nationals.”

Parliamentarians slam detention of EU citizens by UK Border Force

EU citizens without settled status detained on arrival to the UK

 

[jordanbasset]

My view is that most EU citizens were already here and just formalised their residency to protect their right to live here, there presence would not have been registered by the Home office before. In the same way that many UK Nationals were already living in EU countries, but only recently formalised their residency to protect their right to live in the country of their choice

 

[Tranona]

It's a funny old world, migration. Too many Brits prefer benefit to menial jobs so, the Portuguese (and others) come over and do them for far more pay than at home and Brazilians do the jobs in Portugal that the Portuguese don't want to do. When speaking to hoteliers in N Wales about the numbers of foreign staff (lots of Poles) the reply is they can't get the staff locally although numbers of locals drawing dole are high. Another frequent comment is that most foreign workers are hard grafters, they want to earn as much as possible and then eventually head back home.

That is only one part of the migrant scene and probably the most volatile - that is as you describe. Many are not permanent migrants, but spend one or two years learning English and making money before they return and settle down. Particularly affected in recent years by chronic youth unemployment in countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc (compared with very low levels in the UK). However permanent migration goes across society reflecting better opportunities in a wide range jobs plus a society which assimilates migrants relatively easily (despite what you read in the newspapers!).

 

[Tony Cross]

That is only one part of the migrant scene and probably the most volatile - that is as you describe. Many are not permanent migrants, but spend one or two years learning English and making money before they return and settle down. Particularly affected in recent years by chronic youth unemployment in countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, etc (compared with very low levels in the UK). However permanent migration goes across society reflecting better opportunities in a wide range jobs plus a society which assimilates migrants relatively easily (despite what you read in the newspapers!).

It's interesting that you mention Greece. Here on Crete we have the same problem reported earlier by @Graham376 - there are plenty of unemployed young people, but there are also chronic shortages of people to work on the land in the fruit and veg growing industry here (which is huge). The (often undocumented) Pakistanis do this work because the young unemployed Greeks don't want to (it's hard work). I know that the fruit and veg growing industry in the UK has a similar problem in that young unemployed Brits don't want to do it either....

 

[BurnitBlue]

When I was a lad in school at RAF Halton we had special passes to volanteer for hop picking in Kent. We looked so forward to the change of pace. When we got back, Oh the relief, barrack room life was not so bad. It dawned on us later that the main attraction was the opportunity to meet some girls. So indoctrinated were we by the camp educational movies about the war time land army corp we wishfully imagined they were still there.

Perhaps farmers should take the hint with a happy hour thing giving girls double wages to attract the lads.

 

[Tranona]

It's interesting that you mention Greece. Here on Crete we have the same problem reported earlier by @Graham376 - there are plenty of unemployed young people, but there are also chronic shortages of people to work on the land in the fruit and veg growing industry here (which is huge). The (often undocumented) Pakistanis do this work because the young unemployed Greeks don't want to (it's hard work). I know that the fruit and veg growing industry in the UK has a similar problem in that young unemployed Brits don't want to do it either....

Because of its seasonal nature, agriculture and horticulture have always relied on migrant labour, be it London east enders in the hop fields, Irish potato harvesters or student grape pickers. The industry requires cheap labour because we don't want to pay high prices for our food. Employers adjust to where the cheap labour is available, currently for the UK it is eastern Europe and Russia and for Spain it is Africa. While mechanisation is reducing the need for cheap labour it will always be there and in just about every developed and relatively wealthy country it will be met by migrants.

 

[RAI]

UK ‘faces labour shortage’ as Covid and Brexit fuel exodus of overseas workers

 

[BurnitBlue]

It would be rather odd if someone lived in a normal area in Sweden long enough to acquire citizenship without learning Swedish but currently there are no requirements to speak Swedish to become a citizen.

Thanks. I got my info a few days ago from TV news quoting the leader of the SD party, Jimmy Åkesson who said nobody will (or should) be given Swedish citizenship who did not embrace Swedish culture completely. I had heard last year somewhere that the requirement for a language test was in the pipeline. I have lived in Sweden for nearly 30 year. I got my permanent residence letter a few days ago. No problem.

In my Military service in UK I was involved in a sensitve area. Nuclear bomb delivery systems. Lots of us in my group had to be cleared so nothing special. I have always thought I should find out whether the Official Secrets Act I had signed for is still in force or if it has lapsed. I recall that taking another citizenship was a red flag. I have never bothered with Swedish citizenship not because I didn't want to but because I was OK with residency. Less hassle.No insult to Sweden intended.

 

[nortada]

Thanks. I got my info a few days ago from TV news quoting the leader of the SD party, Jimmy Åkesson who said nobody will (or should) be given Swedish citizenship who did not embrace Swedish culture completely. I had heard last year somewhere that the requirement for a language test was in the pipeline. I have lived in Sweden for nearly 30 year. I got my permanent residence letter a few days ago. No problem.

In my Military service in UK I was involved in a sensitve area. Nuclear bomb delivery systems. Lots of us in my group had to be cleared so nothing special. I have always thought I should find out whether the Official Secrets Act I had signed for is still in force or if it has lapsed. I recall that taking another citizenship was a red flag. I have never bothered with Swedish citizenship not because I didn't want to but because I was OK with residency. Less hassle.No insult to Sweden intended.

Signing the Official Secrets Act is for life but won’t inhibit the getting of another citizenship.

If you get caught breaking the Act you could get hauled back to face the music. However, I suspect any sensitive information you may have once had has long since aged out.

I don’t quite see the relevance of this in this discussion

 

[BurnitBlue]

Signing the Official Secrets Act is for life but won’t inhibit the getting of another citizenship.

If you get caught breaking the Act you could get hauled back to face the music. However, I suspect any sensitive information you may have once had has long since aged out.

I don’t quite see the relevance of this in this discussion

No relevance in this discussion. It was a message to AndersG who is a Swede about swedish language requirement for citizenship. He correcred me that there is no requirement at this time.

Regarding the official secrets act. Yes I suspected it was for life however it is a fact that every bit of info can build a bigger picture even if it only illustrates attitude of deployment. I was a bit paranoid about citizenship and loyalty because Sweden were neutrel for two major wars. Good for them but it does question which side they would have chosen if push came to shove. BTW the stuff was twinned with the B52 system although out of date the B52 is still current and in active service. According to birdseye in the other forum our stuff was slightly superior if the accuracy during the annual bombing competitions was an indication.

Oh well, nice to have a break. Back to the thread and Schengen.

 

[nortada]

No relevance in this discussion. It was a message to AndersG who is a Swede about swedish language requirement for citizenship. He correcred me that there is no requirement at this time.

Regarding the official secrets act. Yes I suspected it was for life however it is a fact that every bit of info can build a bigger picture even if it only illustrates attitude of deployment. I was a bit paranoid about citizenship and loyalty because Sweden were neutrel for two major wars. Good for them but it does question which side they would have chosen if push came to shove. BTW the stuff was twinned with the B52 system although out of date the B52 is still current and in active service. According to birdseye in the other forum our stuff was slightly superior if the accuracy during the annual bombing competitions was an indication.

Oh well, nice to have a break. Back to the thread and Schengen.

Your original question, will Schengen be suspended? The consensus here is, unlikely but who knows?

It is just possible that different countries will interpret and implement Schengen in different ways. Again who knows.

Your broader questions on Schengen have all been answered by those who know, with supporting links (where available) so I can see nothing left to discuss.

 

[RAI]

Hostile environment.
Handcuffed, detained, denied medicine: EU citizens’ UK border ordeals
So proud?

 

[nortada]

Hostile environment.
Handcuffed, detained, denied medicine: EU citizens’ UK border ordeals
So proud?

Quite so, but don’t see how this has any relevance to the possible temporary suspension of Schengen or Liveaboard Link

Understand that yesterday Ryanair out of Birmingham was warning those bound for Faro that not wearing masks on the beaches could land you in police custody

Understand that the requirement to wear masks is in doors so it could be straight off the jet, straight to the nick, do not pass go but pay €60 - the going rate for minor trangeseeions.

As to beaches, the blanket requirement to wear masks has been rescinded but the rules on social distances remains. Given the size and number of beaches, this should not be too difficult to achieve.

 

[RAI]

Quite so, but don’t see how this has any relevance to the possible temporary suspension of Schengen or Liveaboard Link

Understand that yesterday Ryanair out of Birmingham was warning those bound for Faro that not wearing masks on the beaches could land you in police custody

Understand that the requirement to wear masks is in doors so it could be straight off the jet, straight to the nick, do not pass go but pay €60 - the going rate for minor trangeseeions.

As to beaches, the blanket requirement to wear masks has been rescinded but the rules on social distances remains. Given the size and number of beaches, this should not be too difficult to achieve.

Are you mixing Covid with Brexit induced changes? Will EU states states reciprocate?

 

[Bouba]

As to beaches, the blanket requirement to wear masks has been rescinded

I think that on a Faro beach the requirement is to wear a blanket

 

[nortada]

Are you mixing Covid with Brexit induced changes? Will EU states states reciprocate?

Definitely Covid

Doubt if landlocked EU countries will reciprocate.

Edited to remove reference to Germany.?