Reflagging new-to-us boat in Med - which flag?

[sailaboutvic]

Bit of a thread drift as it don't apply to the OP question .
In the begin of 2021 there was lots of talk re changing flag with the concean that British flag boat where going to keep getting boarded ,
I also wonder what 2021 was going to bring and looked into other ship register,
personally I'm happy to say after cruising 3 different EU countries and being stopped twice , Flag ,VAT or nationality wasn't question ,
We was ask for no more documents then any other year,
insurance, reg, passport , a quick look through them and we was on our way.
Things may change next year or may not .

 

[duncan_m]

We reflagged to NL pre-brexit. I sailed over to Rotterdam to get it done as the office is there. It took quite a few weeks for the official to come and visit the boat but made use of the time and revarnished the sole.

Main reason is that we didn't plan to stay in the UK and thought it might make life a little easier. Can't say that it has or hasn't at this stage.

A good question to ask yourself is whether you're going to want to do skippered charters to top up the bank account. If so I heard that Poland will commercially register you with no more requirements than a normal boat reg or it's the same thing.

In terms of flying under the radar I'd agree with the above statement form sailaboutvic.

In terms of 'under the radar' what's your goal? In most EU countries when you go to a marina you have to present your registration and PP to the office and depending on the country they send that off to the national police of the country.

All that said, this summer we met a lovely Russian couple on a US flagged boat who weren't on anyones radar for sure. They said they hadn't had any issues and they never went to any marinas.

 

[Gwylan]

The wife and I are in the process of negotiating the purchase of a used boat, currently in Italy. The boat is currently US flagged, but has VAT paid status after being imported into Sweden by the current owner - we will of course verify this prior to completion. We are both UK citizens and resident in Spain. Note that I've confirmed that there is no longer any requirement for Spanish residents to flag the boat in Spain, and that we are well aware of the issues around Matriculation tax in spain, for which we are seeking professional advice. I've seen plenty of threads here on these subjects and don't wish to add further to that!

The topic I'd love to get any insight on is the question of how to flag the boat. I've read numerous posts on here about whether to reflag boats in the Med to an EU flag in the hope of "flying under the radar" and attracting less interest from customs and immigration people, most of which seem to end with the conclusion that its not worth the agro of changing and they would be as well to stick with the red duster.

However the position we are in is that the boat is not currently UK registered, and as UK citizens but not UK residents we would appear to be eligible for Part 1 but not SSR registration. As my wife is also a US citizen we could actually keep the current US flag if the boat was owned solely by her, although I'm not convinced that's necessarily the ideal flag to have in the EU either.

Firstly does anyone have experience of how strictly the residence requirement of SSR is applied? For example is it one of those situations where we could provide a relative's address on the registration docs and nobody would care, or could that create all sorts of problems? The last thing I would want to do would be to have our papers rejected by a foreign customs official because we weren't a UK resident - bearing in mind that we may be relying on our Spanish residence in order to remain in Spanish waters.

If we decided that SSR was not an option that would leave Part 1, which I understand is rather more onerous and expensive; it seems like we shouldn't have too much difficulty proving a trail of ownership but flying a tonnage surveyor out to Italy sounds like it wouldn't be cheap!

Against this there is the perception I have that a UK flagged boat is more likely to attract interest from customs and immigration people around the Med. This may be all in my mind, and I would love to hear anyone that has experiences that support or refute this, but I suspect given the pandemic this year is probably too soon to know for sure. For the avoidance of doubt we fully intend to comply with all immigration requirements, monitor our Schengen time etc - but it sure would be nice to avoid having to prove this to local officials any more frequently than strictly necessary.

So given that we are starting from a blank slate I wonder if it would be worth finding a friendly EU flag; Poland is one that I've heard mentioned but I would be open to other suggestions. Spain is not under consideration given how onerous their regime is.

Does anyone here have experience with having a boat flagged in another EU country (without a citizenship or residence requirement) that they can recommend or caution against?

Thanks
Neil

Malta! Speak English and like money. Depending on value a limited company owner might work for you.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Malta! Speak English and like money. Depending on value a limited company owner might work for you.

Gwylan you don't have to have a limited company someone like Malta yachting will do it all for you , the down to Malta is it has to be done every year and I think the cost is around €120 /150 .

 

[Gwylan]

Gwylan you don't have to have a limited company someone like Malta yachting will do it all for you , the down to Malta is it has to be done every year and I think the cost is around €120 /150 .

But nominee directors can be handy. Don't totally agree with them. Does depend on your situation.
Does need a professional opinion, not what your mates in the pub think.
But you pay a stranger and it is still only an opinion but supposed to be informed.

 

[DeepKeel]

Malta! Speak English and like money. Depending on value a limited company owner might work for you.

Like I said up thread somewhere, Malta has advantages, especially for a higher value boat. I can link you to a good, specialist company who can assist. PM me for details.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

Why not part 1 in Gib or Jersey you only have to be a uk citizen not resident, I have been on Jersey register for a very long time it is competitive and is valid for 10 years

 

[westernman]

Why not part 1 in Gib or Jersey you only have to be a uk citizen not resident, I have been on Jersey register for a very long time it is competitive and is valid for 10 years

You only have to be a UK citizen, not resident for Part I in the UK.

 

[billskip]

Why not part 1 in Gib or Jersey you only have to be a uk citizen not resident, I have been on Jersey register for a very long time it is competitive and is valid for 10 years

They are not in the EU are they? But if its easier to register, it's a good option.

 

[Koeketiene]

They are not in the EU are they? But if its easier to register, it's a good option.

IIRC, Jersey is not in the EU, but Gib is.

 

[sailaboutvic]

IIRC, Jersey is not in the EU, but Gib is.

I don't think Gib is yet

 

[Koeketiene]

I don't think Gib is yet

Yes and no seems to be the answer: Gibraltar

 

[Chris_Robb]

Registration country can affect who can insure you. If for example you were insured at Lloyds, GJW for instance, and you change to any EU flag, Inc Polish, your insurance will be invalid.

If you ensure, do you want any legal action to be in a foreign jurisdiction,? Pantaneous can write the business but if you have a claim dispute you would have to do this in GERMANY. I would prefer to stay under in law..... certainly not Greek or polish

 

[wwalsh]

yes that is the problem with pantaenius despite that they are known to pay out well

 

[sailaboutvic]

Registration country can affect who can insure you. If for example you were insured at Lloyds, GJW for instance, and you change to any EU flag, Inc Polish, your insurance will be invalid.

If you ensure, do you want any legal action to be in a foreign jurisdiction,? Pantaneous can write the business but if you have a claim dispute you would have to do this in GERMANY. I would prefer to stay under in law..... certainly not Greek or polish

Only if your insuranced with pants Germany

 

[Koeketiene]

If you ensure, do you want any legal action to be in a foreign jurisdiction,? Pantaneous can write the business but if you have a claim dispute you would have to do this in GERMANY. I would prefer to stay under in law..... certainly not Greek or polish

Not quite so.
My Belgian registered/flagged boat (kept in France all year) is insured with Pants UK.

 

[sailaboutvic]

Let be honest about this , many hundreds of boats are insured with company other then UK because they not UK flaged and how many times do we read there problems , I not read of any other then UK company some who now are refusing insurance to boats kept in the EU

 

[Chris_Robb]

Not quite so.
My Belgian registered/flagged boat (kept in France all year) is insured with Pants UK.

View attachment 125336

But it is so. Your UK insurance is factional on Germany.

 

[Koeketiene]

But it is so. Your UK insurance is factional on Germany.

I am not disputing that Pants is a Germany based company, however if anything were to go amiss, I should not have to seek redress in German courts (see attachment of #56).

 

[sailaboutvic]

Pants insurance boats all over the world and as I understand it , it's regulation is in the country it's insured.