Orca attack

cherod

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Your right in saying their are unannounced but in day light at times you will see them in the distance, now I'm not saying every time we see Orca we should go in astern but along that part of coast line , it's a consideration.
May not be for everyone but I would if I happen to be under motor at the time.
Probably we won't hear much over the coming months until the route is heavy used again in spring.
certainly ,,, but they may not be easy to see at first with just the cursory glance behind ( lookout ) . i think were it me even if not under power at the time , which i think would be most likely when in passage , if i saw them approaching i would, or even saw them at tall , at least have the engines on toute sweet . (y)
 

greeny

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Thinking about it, going astern has a few reasons why the tactic may be successful.
It may seem to be aggressive and scare off the orca due to the prop that may inflict injury.
If they're playing a game then it's not so easy to chase the rudder with the keel in the way.
If they are confusing the boat with other sea creatures and genuinely hunting and trying to kill, then the "creature" (boat) going backwards would leave them in no doubt that it is not another creature as in large fish/mammal. I don't know of many fish/mammals that swim backwards normally.
 

Mistroma

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I don't know why they attack. Going astern has worked for some, this from MOA forum about an attack around midnight - The attack lasted for about 30 minutes and ended after we went in reverse on the advice of Lisbon Coast Guard.
I must admit to thinking of 2 tactics when I first heard of the attacks. Going into very shallow water seemed like a good idea and keeping close the the shore sounded sensible but time-consuming and required constant attention. I also thought of reversing in order to force an attack to be carried out close to a rapidly spinning sharp thing.

The shallow water idea still has merit in being close to shore and possible shelter if wind is off-shore. However, I've seen video of an Orca playing with a boat at anchor and also ones of them charging up a beach to grab prey. I think it would only stand a chance in a very large area of very shallow water. They may be more cautious if there's only 2-3m depth for several hundred metres in all directions. Not really a practical solution.

Reversing sounds reasonable as it limits their options for a safe approach. However, it won't prevent an initial attack unless you really enjoy sailing backwards (I have done it for short distances many years ago in a dinghy. :D) It will be interesting to see if it is effective and if it can be carried out quickly enough to avoid significant damage. I suspect it will help but boats will still be damaged by a sudden attack.

Probably more reasonable than "plan B" Anti-depradation Stinger

Slightly different product from the one Webbie mentioned in #54. Orca probably don't leap out of the water enough for it to function.
 
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Graham376

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Having watched several videos and read reports, I would say the first action would be to disconnect the autohelm (or put on standby) as one guy had his quadrant mangled and another had his tiller pilot mount ripped out of the deck, then dump sail and go astern on engine.

Most boats tend not to be in inshore waters due to the forests of danbuoys so, quickly heading for shallow water not an option particularly when under attack.
 

Mistroma

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Having watched several videos and read reports, I would say the first action would be to disconnect the autohelm (or put on standby) as one guy had his quadrant mangled and another had his tiller pilot mount ripped out of the deck, then dump sail and go astern on engine.

Most boats tend not to be in inshore waters due to the forests of danbuoys so, quickly heading for shallow water not an option particularly when under attack.
Good point. The transition from forward to reverse will probably be dangerous and you could get a lot of damage or broken bones. I think you'd need to be extremely cautious when holding the wheel. Pretty difficult on my boat as the steering is very heavy at more than a couple of knots in reverse and impossible to hold at all at any significant angle.
 

cherod

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ok , if you are doing a good 10 or 15 knts under sail , in a multihull as i appreciate that is unlikely in a mono ;) then sudden reversal may take a few minutes , but otherwise it would not take long to get the engines on and into reverse , then drop the sails or at least slip the sheets , nor do i think that any significant speed in reverse would be needed , 2 or 3 knts i imagine ,, i wonder what is recommended by the coast guard ( all from the comfort of my armchair ? )
 

cherod

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If you've got the kite up it could take several minutes to get going astern.
throw the two lines and let it fly , not going to cause any damage , even if , i suppose it would depend on what is more important to the individual , the kite or the rudder .
 

BurnitBlue

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Peronally, I would never consider losing control of a spinnaker in that situation. The guys and sheets are long and unsupported and could end up around rhe prop. The boat could even overun the spinnaker itself. No rudder and no engine makes the situation worse. Keep the boat under control at all times is my opinion.
 

cherod

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Peronally, I would never consider losing control of a spinnaker in that situation. The guys and sheets are long and unsupported and could end up around rhe prop. The boat could even overun the spinnaker itself. No rudder and no engine makes the situation worse. Keep the boat under control at all times is my opinion.
be hard to run over the spinaker when the wind is behind you and the spinaker is still connected at the top of the mast and you are going astern :oops:. most people have a snuffer to effect a controlled drop ,,, but everyone to their own .
 

BurnitBlue

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be hard to run over the spinaker when the wind is behind you and the spinaker is still connected at the top of the mast and you are going astern :oops:. most people have a snuffer to effect a controlled drop ,,, but everyone to their own .
There is a great possibility that the lines will end up round the prop. The boat has to stop before it can reverse while a flying out of control spinnaker will make that difficult. How long would you keep the out of control spinnaker flying from the masthead. With Orka attacking the rudder, an out of control spinnaker will be a complication with dire results. I repeat, keep control of the boat.
 

cherod

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There is a great possibility that the lines will end up round the prop. The boat has to stop before it can reverse while a flying out of control spinnaker will make that difficult. How long would you keep the out of control spinnaker flying from the masthead. With Orka attacking the rudder, an out of control spinnaker will be a complication with dire results. I repeat, keep control of the boat.
i would never suggest otherwise , but you seem to be confusing the two .
 

BurnitBlue

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i would never suggest otherwise , but you seem to be confusing the two .
I am not confusing anything. Attending to an out of control spinnaker on the bow while an out of control Orca is attacking the rudder is a situation that can get even worse rapidly. Boats do overun spinnakers and lines do get caught in the prop. As far as I am concerned it matters not a rats ass whether the lines or the spinnaker end up under the boat. Your toast. And it would be your fault for releasing the lines and possibly you or a crew releasing the halyard also. You do what you like. I will try to keep control of the boat.
 

cherod

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I am not confusing anything. Attending to an out of control spinnaker on the bow while an out of control Orca is attacking the rudder is a situation that can get even worse rapidly. Boats do overun spinnakers and lines do get caught in the prop. As far as I am concerned it matters not a rats ass whether the lines or the spinnaker end up under the boat. Your toast. And it would be your fault for releasing the lines and possibly you or a crew releasing the halyard also. You do what you like. I will try to keep control of the boat.
perhaps you can explain then how with the spinaker attatched to the top of the mast and the sail with ropes blowing out ahead and way in the air you are going to run over them ? presuming that , as with most people , there is a snuffer which will have the spinaker down pretty damned quick and under control , and NO , i would suggest that you do not release the halyard , why would you , you then would have a dangerous situation ,, if yourself or crew can not be trusted to behave responsibly then they should at least be banished down below where they can not cause havoc,, and while you are suggesting silly things, i would not suggest that you jump in the water either !!
 

Beneteau381

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The going astern. Advise is quite new and since it been given yacht that have used it all reported has said the attack stopped , now if the attack was about to stop anyway , who knows ,
But no other advice given ( stop engine, drop sails, turn all equipment off ) as done anything to stop an interaction .
Not sure about anyone else here but if it was me , going astern would be my first reaction and if possible before an attack start .
When I mentioned going astern to the RYA guy, he launched in to "they are protected animals" and wouldnt let me make my point. I thought I was talking to Chris Packham!
 

cherod

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When I mentioned going astern to the RYA guy, he launched in to "they are protected animals" and wouldnt let me make my point. I thought I was talking to Chris Packham!
chris Packham , or , fortunately , millions of other like minded people .
 

Spanjaard

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Thre is no problem killing pigeons, or rats, or foxes... but orcas no, no, no... doesn't matter if it costs millions of pound or if hundres of humans lifes are put at risk:

Orcas frst, humans second. The world upside down.
 
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