Greek anchoring, bows in.

newtothis

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You can anchor in Gouvia bay the holding good there and dinghy ride into the Marina 10 mins in a slow dinghy and get your supply in the super market out side the marina or the small one in the marina
Highly recommend the extra few minutes walk to the one outside the marina. More choice and half the price of the marina market. They even let you take the trolleys and send someone down to the pontoons every few hours to collect them.
 

nickf

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35 years ago everyone went bows to! (well 95 %). But that was with smaller boats and with a rope and chain rode which was easily hauled in by hand. Still is possible and has some advantages even with larger boats.
 

Slowboat35

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35 years ago everyone went bows to! (well 95 %). But that was with smaller boats and with a rope and chain rode which was easily hauled in by hand. Still is possible and has some advantages even with larger boats.
Of course bows -to is far more seamanlike and safer than stern -to as it doesn't endanger the vulnerable rudder to unknown boulders and ballast under the quay which never seems to enter anyone's heads these days. But then ten years ago no one used more than one line ashore when 'anchoring' in a bay. Now every charter boat and especially those ghastly block-of-flats cats use at least two. (and add anchor lights despite being moored to the shore!!)

I have long suspected that these things are often 'fashionable' rather than practical. Especially given the demographic of those using them.
The liveaboards and many owners seem to prefer to be safe at anchor...
 

anoccasionalyachtsman

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Of course bows -to is far more seamanlike and safer than stern -to as it doesn't endanger the vulnerable rudder to unknown boulders and ballast under the quay which never seems to enter anyone's heads these days. But then ten years ago no one used more than one line ashore when 'anchoring' in a bay. Now every charter boat and especially those ghastly block-of-flats cats use at least two. (and add anchor lights despite being moored to the shore!!)

I have long suspected that these things are often 'fashionable' rather than practical. Especially given the demographic of those using them.
The liveaboards and many owners seem to prefer to be safe at anchor...
Once you get to know the harbours it's pretty easy to remember and avoid the odd boulder, and until you do, you just reverse in for a quick look without anchoring. Most times you only need to move a metre or two sideways - if there's space.

Without wishing to give @dgadee further doubts, as well as the few boulders, watch out for the far more common sewage outlets, the lamp post that will shine straight down the hatch and the bench where the teenagers will be preening all evening.
 

sailaboutvic

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Once you get to know the harbours it's pretty easy to remember and avoid the odd boulder, and until you do, you just reverse in for a quick look without anchoring. Most times you only need to move a metre or two sideways - if there's space.

Without wishing to give @dgadee further doubts, as well as the few boulders, watch out for the far more common sewage outlets, the lamp post that will shine straight down the hatch and the bench where the teenagers will be preening all evening.
Once you get to know any harbour / wall / quay it becomes easy to remember stuff ,
But as for a quick pop in to check for boulder , I not too sure about that at all .
I can just imagine a yacht going a Stern between yacht in Greece without dropping his anchor , there going to be a few skipper going to have a word or two to say about that .
You also would need to get quite close to spot for any obstruct by which time your three part down between boats both side possible with a side wind leaning on one of the boat You then have to get back out again with a side wind possibles getting your rudder stuck on some one chain , I think you get my point .
It you don't want the light shining down the hatch or people chatting on the quay then beat to go and anchor out .
 

BobnLesley

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...watch out for the far more common sewage outlets, the lamp post that will shine straight down the hatch and the bench where the teenagers will be preening all evening.

(y) I'd forgotten about all those :).

For the OP: We spent several years mooring bows to Greece/Turkey - the boat did not do reverse - but my advice/suggestions are really only relevant for boats <35'; if that's of any use, let me know and I'll post how we did it.
 

anoccasionalyachtsman

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Once you get to know any harbour / wall / quay it becomes easy to remember stuff ,
But as for a quick pop in to check for boulder , I not too sure about that at all .
I can just imagine a yacht going a Stern between yacht in Greece without dropping his anchor , there going to be a few skipper going to have a word or two to say about that .
You also would need to get quite close to spot for any obstruct by which time your three part down between boats both side possible with a side wind leaning on one of the boat You then have to get back out again with a side wind possibles getting your rudder stuck on some one chain , I think you get my point .
It you don't want the light shining down the hatch or people chatting on the quay then beat to go and anchor out .
I guess that one of the benefits sailing with younger kids is that we tended to get in fairly early and were more able to take our pick of wide spaces Vic. Getting it right so that you've got the world strolling by, no pong from the outfall and knowing that the mopeds won't all arrive at the end of the plank was always a good feeling. We had a boat out there for eleven years, so got fairly handy at the backwards parking, crosswinds or no.

(I'm hoping that my next Med boat isn't too long away now, and rudder-wise I'm really tempted to fit a forward looking echosounder transducer at each end of the boat).
 

sailaboutvic

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I guess that one of the benefits sailing with younger kids is that we tended to get in fairly early and were more able to take our pick of wide spaces Vic. Getting it right so that you've got the world strolling by, no pong from the outfall and knowing that the mopeds won't all arrive at the end of the plank was always a good feeling. We had a boat out there for eleven years, so got fairly handy at the backwards parking, crosswinds or no.

(I'm hoping that my next Med boat isn't too long away now, and rudder-wise I'm really tempted to fit a forward looking echosounder transducer at each end of the boat).
Agree getting in early if you want to get on the quay in Greece is the key leave it to late after noon and you no longer got the pick of big wide spaces or even a space at all .
The really problem in my view is many newbie or come to that oldies have problem to med moor as it's known ,
So bow in is the easiest option , then the wind picks up and they want to leave because they frighten there going to smash their bow on the quay or they want to leave early to get to they next spot on the next quay , so they trying to haul up a stern anchor while trying to get out good old cross wind that tend to happing in these harbour , we all know what happens next .

For experience sailor like yourself who done it tons of time you probably get away with motoring in a gap on a empty wall to see what's about , but as I posted if someone tried to come between my boat and another which in Greece the gap will probably be so smaller just to take a look at what is jetting out I know what I be telling him .
Get in your dinghy to take a look. Of cause by this time someone else has pop in that one space .

Lots of people go on quay in Greece to people watch as one charter British guy said to me , wave at the poor people , what a wanker .
 

sailaboutvic

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(y) I'd forgotten about all those :).

For the OP: We spent several years mooring bows to Greece/Turkey - the boat did not do reverse - but my advice/suggestions are really only relevant for boats <35'; if that's of any use, let me know and I'll post how we did it.
I can understand long keel boats going in bow in , trying to go stern in with a boat that don't like going backward especially with any cross wind in a gap just big enough to fit would just be stupid and most people with that type of boat wouldn't even bother to go onto a quay as they know if it goes wrong what the out come would be ,
 

rib

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Dgadee..im in a semi long keeler that has terrible port walk,after 18 months cruising the greek islands and over a year in turkey ,with a bit of planning ive only had to do it a hand full of times.plenty of aft quater fenders and long lines help if you have to..
 

RupertW

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Of course bows -to is far more seamanlike and safer than stern -to as it doesn't endanger the vulnerable rudder to unknown boulders and ballast under the quay which never seems to enter anyone's heads these days. But then ten years ago no one used more than one line ashore when 'anchoring' in a bay. Now every charter boat and especially those ghastly block-of-flats cats use at least two. (and add anchor lights despite being moored to the shore!!)

I have long suspected that these things are often 'fashionable' rather than practical. Especially given the demographic of those using them.
The liveaboards and many owners seem to prefer to be safe at anchor...
That is the strangest thing that I have ever read?

Why one earth is it more seamanlike to head the pointy bit at a harbour wall with known depth. Of course there are some places where your ignorance might cause you to do it until you know but a pilot book or online info is pretty good at telling you how safe it is. The seamanlike approach to to use the design of your boat not fight it and if you have a deliberately designed wide flat fendered stern than resting securely on that whilst you do your lines is a lot more seamanlike that pivoting on the pointy end, and of course you can step ashore more easily in most places with or without a semi-raised passarelle.
 

sailaboutvic

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That is the strangest thing that I have ever read?

Why one earth is it more seamanlike to head the pointy bit at a harbour wall with known depth. Of course there are some places where your ignorance might cause you to do it until you know but a pilot book or online info is pretty good at telling you how safe it is. The seamanlike approach to to use the design of your boat not fight it and if you have a deliberately designed wide flat fendered stern than resting securely on that whilst you do your lines is a lot more seamanlike that pivoting on the pointy end, and of course you can step ashore more easily in most places with or without a semi-raised passarelle.
There nothing more strange as folks .
 

Slowboat35

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That is the strangest thing that I have ever read?

Why one earth is it more seamanlike to head the pointy bit at a harbour wall with known depth. Of course there are some places where your ignorance might cause you to do it until you know but a pilot book or online info is pretty good at telling you how safe it is. The seamanlike approach to to use the design of your boat not fight it and if you have a deliberately designed wide flat fendered stern than resting securely on that whilst you do your lines is a lot more seamanlike that pivoting on the pointy end, and of course you can step ashore more easily in most places with or without a semi-raised passarelle.
I thin that is the strangest thing I have ever read!

It is utterly obvious that:
a) the shape of the bow keeps the hull much, much further away from any underwater obstructions whilst stern-to hazards the vulnerable and critical rudder and prop. It also minimised cosmetic damage or worse to your hull in the event of bumping into the quay. That is precisely using "the design of your boat" for better seamansip! ergo safer. ergo arguably better seamanship. All aspects of bows-to appear to be superior to stern-to unless you dislike privacy and like streetlights illuminating the cabin and noisy mopeds 10m closer than necessary.
b) not every boat can be redesigned/rebuilt with your 'wide flat fendered stern', nor does everyone hanker after one . A point which has nothing whatsoever to do with 'seamanship'.
c) not every harbour wall is described in detail, if at all by pilot books. A point that should not need making if you posess good seamanship...
d) far from "of course..." in reality it is often far easierand safer to step off an anchor/pulpit right onto a quay than teeter along a steep, narrow and wobbly plank 2 metres long...

What is implied by "pivoting on the pointy end"? What does one pivot on when mooring?

The only seamanship issue I can see with bows-to is anchor line handling and suitably configured (kedge) ground tackle, but many smaller boats cope with a bower anchor and no windlass so that pretty much negates that argument as long as the kedge anchor and chain are up to the job.

There is nothing more strange than people who always do what everyone else does simply because everyone else does it...and then criticise those who think before acting.
 

Resolution

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In the Stockholm archipelago almost all the locals go BOWS to the rocks, having chucked out a stern anchor (usually a Bruce and without any chain) on the way in. Reasons for doing this are 1) sloping shape of the rocks 2)soft mud and sheltered waters makes the stern anchor pretty adequate 3) small size of the yachts so not deep draft keels. Hopping off the bows was not easy, even with their usual split pulpit.
In Greek Med, winds can be stronger at times and a kedge anchor would need to be heavier and laid with much more care. Nowadays most Med yachts are considerably bigger than those in Sweden, so handling the right size of anchor and chain really needs a windlass. Again, most yachts designed this century have broad transoms and easy access on board via the stern. And they steer astern with relative ease. Given a decent passerelle or even a simple plank, I cannot see why one would ever want to go in bows first.

Unless you needed to unload your chain onto the quayside for repainting or something!
 

RupertW

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...
There is nothing more strange than people who always do what everyone else does simply because everyone else does it...and then criticise those who think before acting.

That would indeed be strange, but it’s not very strange to do the same as others when the harbours and boats are specifically designed for the usual way.

I guess my hackles were raised by the statement that acting in the rational and usual way was unseamanlike. What is seamanlike is assessing the advantages and risks and choosing the appropriate option. Bows-to and stern-to have their merits in different boats and different conditions and although the vast majority of the time going stern-to in the Med is the seamanlike approach for most crew/boat/harbour/conditions combination it would be mad of me to say it was unseamanlike of others to go bows-to if they have their reasons for it.
 
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