harvey38
Well-known member
I'd ask Jon Peet of this parish, what was his steel cruiser project, 9 years?
Long term boat project and family life, What (not) to do?
- Thread starter SvenH
- Start date
Concerto
Well-known member
When I bought Concerto, I expected it to take 2 years and £12,000 for improvements. Well I am still not quite finished after 10 years, but I enjoy getting my 1980 boat as close to new condition as possible. Also I enjoy sailing, with plenty of big trips which allowed me to test that everything worked and meets my needs. As for costs the original budget has proved to be too low as I have now spent about £33,000. Do I regret any of it? No, as I can afford it, besides most of the extra cost was met from a profit I made on a flat I bought and sold. Now I have a boat I am proud of and know it will get me to my destinations in a safe and comfortable way. Where ever I go there are always other sailors come over to chat, many having sailed a Fulmar in the past. For those who have not followed my progress have a look at this PowerPoint presentation from 2020 and short video of Concerto at the Southampton Boat Show in 2021. There are more links in my signature of videos and posts that may be of interest.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf
SvenH
Active member
Thanks for all the replies (including PM's) guys, much appreciated.
I do not consider myself to be an average home diy person, far from it. As such, I am confident in being able to do the work. I also have a friend to fall back on for advice, he is building a classic mahogany boat from scratch in his back yard.
The primary candidates are 1 hours+ away with skilled and pleasant people and good opening hours, and one 45 minutes where I do not trust the people to lift out the boat without me present... But there are a lot of diy-ers here.
I am also very much aware of the strain it puts on someone if the boat is not close by. The current boat (cold molded plywood-epoxy to be project) was about 2 hours one way away when I bought her, going there on saturday and then my other boat on sunday, 45 minutes one way.
Laying the new cork deck took 10 months of weekend work, doing about 14 hours per "3 day weekend" for the last few months.
I am also quite used to dragging tools back and forth and rarely miss something.
I'll read and read again your comments over then next days ; )
I do not consider myself to be an average home diy person, far from it. As such, I am confident in being able to do the work. I also have a friend to fall back on for advice, he is building a classic mahogany boat from scratch in his back yard.
The primary candidates are 1 hours+ away with skilled and pleasant people and good opening hours, and one 45 minutes where I do not trust the people to lift out the boat without me present... But there are a lot of diy-ers here.
I am also very much aware of the strain it puts on someone if the boat is not close by. The current boat (cold molded plywood-epoxy to be project) was about 2 hours one way away when I bought her, going there on saturday and then my other boat on sunday, 45 minutes one way.
Laying the new cork deck took 10 months of weekend work, doing about 14 hours per "3 day weekend" for the last few months.
I am also quite used to dragging tools back and forth and rarely miss something.
I'll read and read again your comments over then next days ; )
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Stemar
Well-known member
I always think that it's our duty to do our best to dissuade anyone from taking on a project. If we succeed, we've saved you from much heartache, disappointment, expense and ultimate failure, because any boat project is going to cost at least double (if you're lucky) in money, hard work and family grumpiness. If we fail, maybe, just maybe, you have the peculiar form of insanity that's needed to finish it and be proud of it.
Obviously, it depends on your family, without their support, it just ain't going to happen, but assuming you work five days and have the weekends off, I'd suggest a flexible schedule of one weekend for the family, one for the boat. I was able to do more on the boat because I have a very understanding and supportive wife, and our children are grown up. They're also smart enough to live far enough away that I can't borrow them to help
Jonalison's "screwdriver distance" is definitely a plan, if possible, but cheap storage may be more important, especially once the boat's ready to sleep in. Being able to stay over the weekend without a daily commute means that travelling time is less important.
Obviously, it depends on your family, without their support, it just ain't going to happen, but assuming you work five days and have the weekends off, I'd suggest a flexible schedule of one weekend for the family, one for the boat. I was able to do more on the boat because I have a very understanding and supportive wife, and our children are grown up. They're also smart enough to live far enough away that I can't borrow them to help
Jonalison's "screwdriver distance" is definitely a plan, if possible, but cheap storage may be more important, especially once the boat's ready to sleep in. Being able to stay over the weekend without a daily commute means that travelling time is less important.
Seastoke
Well-known member
Do you really want to sail or do a project.
Bouba
Well-known member
I think we are (nearly) all in agreement….projects are bad…and I don’t need to list the reasons. But some people need to do them…they have a desire to create or recreate…and I think we should all respect that. The only important thing to remember is not to desert your family…let your little girl grow up with memories of helping her father…not of her father never being there. Good luck with whatever you do 
PeterV
Active member
Does it have to be a long term project, or done all in one go? My project boat, a Westerly, I got sailing first and had several nights away and lots of day sails, using the original tired sails. I then relined the cabin the second winter and did some more work on the interior to get it smarter and more comfortable, and also bought new sails. The third winter I scraped and repainted the decks and did more refurbishment work. Doing it this way I never faced hugely long projects and I was still able to enjoy the boat each summer and, in fact sail day sails from early until late each year.
Stemar
Well-known member
The other point of view is that, at the lower end of the price scale, all boats are projects, and for many of us, it's the only way to get afloat. However, there's a huge difference between a project where you need to rip it all apart and start again, and a boat that needs a bit of work to get safe so you can get out on the water, then bring up to the standard you want over time. Even the latter may not save much money compared with a boat that doesn't need anything (is there such a thing?), but it does allow the money to be spent in less painful amounts over time.
Bouba
Well-known member
True...even a boat in excellent condition needs customizing to make it perfect for you....I bought new but am constantly tinkering....we all have a budget in this forum...even those on tens of millions, it’s still a budget with constraints. Man maths unfortunately is not always your friend... many of us would be better off working at our chosen profession and buying a boat in better condition or paying for professionals to do the work, than DIY.
I think we have to appreciate that there are many of us who enjoy the work involved, the planning, the sense of achievements in a project......my only council is not to get so involved that you lose contact with your family
SvenH
Active member
The boat is maybe the technically best example in this size of the Dutch tradition of building bare hulls to be finished by the owner. Spending the kind of money for this project makes no financial sense at all. It would be cheaper to sell this boat at a loss and buy something similar that does not have the drawbacks.
But that would be less of a boat in many respects and the new boat would also need spending money.
At the same time, I cannot see myself getting old with the boat as it is.
But that would be less of a boat in many respects and the new boat would also need spending money.
At the same time, I cannot see myself getting old with the boat as it is.
Bouba
Well-known member
Hi Sven
Make a thread in this forum about your project...take lots of photos at every stage, tell us your plans in great detail....you will find that the forum will get excited, and can give lots of expert advice....this also puts a little pressure on you to complete the project....after all, who wants to disappoint so many people
....good luck with your project 
. I am sure your family will have many happy times on the boat when she’s finishedoldgit
Well-known member
This might depend on where you live and boat !
In my neck of the woods the river banks are literally lined with "boatyards" full of ancient long abandoned projects , the canvas tarpaulins long ripped to shreds by weather.
Some are motorboats with big holes where the outdrives once were
Right outside my front window, yard where some of the projects have been there for at least 20 + years.
A nice regular income for the yard owner until the owner of the hulk goes to the great boatyard in the sky.
The yard now has planning permission and up for sale, interesting to see how the purchaser disposes of the half dozen "restoration projects " long ago left to the mercy of the weather.
The trick recently is abandoned projects being towed out and dumped on buoys or beached on shorelines under cover of darkness by yard owners.
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dunedin
Well-known member
But there are some people who like working on boats / projects and some who like sailing on boats. It like me you are the latter, this would be 9 years wasted without doing any boating (in that time I have cruised W France, the Baltic and the UK extensively).
Each to their own hobbies.
rogerthebodger
Well-known member
The hull of my current boat was an abended project which I picked up and completed but you need tenacity, skill and money to complete
I keep being asked "how much did it cost me" My answer is I don't wish to know
I keep being asked "how much did it cost me" My answer is I don't wish to know
justanothersailboat
Active member
Oldgit - I am also in the Medway area and there ARE rather a lot of abandoned boats in the yard I use (I don't think it's the one you're referring to) and some that look pretty neglected at my moorings, but most seem to be walkaways rather than actual projects. Boat abandonment is a whole other ball game. But I've also seen a fair few very successful projects in only a couple of years. They're not cluttering up your yard because they're proudly in marinas or on well maintained buoys, mostly looking great. That's what I mean by selection bias - you see the ones people didn't finish because they sit there in view, looking like projects.
Stemar
Well-known member
More importantly, you don't wish your better half to know
Dellquay13
Well-known member
Thankfully for me, my boating bills are as dwarfed by my better halfs horse bills, as I am by her earning power. We each live our hobbies to our own means
vas
Well-known member
had to go back to OP Q after reading all the replies
I have one leg on each boat so to speak, I happily spent 4yrs restoring an old plywood 43ft mobo (mind started as a one season project that expanded), but then I happily use it during the summer months as intended to.
The fact that you feel the need to ask the Q means that you should probably not do it (but that's imho)
The only suggestion is that no matter how carefully you plan things and you cost things (shouldn't really do detailed costing unless you want to get depressed tbh!) you have to double both (probably a few times
)
Find a place at screwdriver distance! In my case, home from office is 400metres and boatyard was 1.5km from office (all in one line) so could go there in the morning, work a few hours, then go to the office for a couple of meetings or a bit of teaching, then home, then back to the yard in the afternoon. Also had two kids 10-12yrs old when I started. The'd think of the yard as a playground, daughter would play with stray cats and dogs, son would be seen holding a hammer and attacking various things he'd find in front of him (mainly stones and lumps of wood).
Was it hard, bet it was, was it worth it, yep it was. At the time (2011) I couldn't afford anything that fitted my needs, so I didn't have many options...
Mind, it's only last year that dear wife admitted that the whole ordeal was worth it, took her 7odd years to do so!
good luck whatever you decide, just make sure you enjoy the work!
cheers
V.
I have one leg on each boat so to speak, I happily spent 4yrs restoring an old plywood 43ft mobo (mind started as a one season project that expanded
), but then I happily use it during the summer months as intended to.The fact that you feel the need to ask the Q means that you should probably not do it (but that's imho)
The only suggestion is that no matter how carefully you plan things and you cost things (shouldn't really do detailed costing unless you want to get depressed tbh!) you have to double both (probably a few times
)Find a place at screwdriver distance! In my case, home from office is 400metres and boatyard was 1.5km from office (all in one line) so could go there in the morning, work a few hours, then go to the office for a couple of meetings or a bit of teaching, then home, then back to the yard in the afternoon. Also had two kids 10-12yrs old when I started. The'd think of the yard as a playground, daughter would play with stray cats and dogs, son would be seen holding a hammer and attacking various things he'd find in front of him (mainly stones and lumps of wood).
Was it hard, bet it was, was it worth it, yep it was. At the time (2011) I couldn't afford anything that fitted my needs, so I didn't have many options...
Mind, it's only last year that dear wife admitted that the whole ordeal was worth it, took her 7odd years to do so!
good luck whatever you decide, just make sure you enjoy the work!
cheers
V.
dancrane
Well-known member
Fascinating. I started out thinking I should add to those discouraging Sven from a plan that will absorb all available time, energy and money...
...and I'm still sure it makes no sense, unless the experience of doing the work really is the outstanding reason for taking it on.
If you just want a boat with better headroom, then acquiring even a much less nice boat by any other means is far more reasonable and sensible.
And you and the family can be enjoying it as a boat, by the end of this month.
...and I'm still sure it makes no sense, unless the experience of doing the work really is the outstanding reason for taking it on.
If you just want a boat with better headroom, then acquiring even a much less nice boat by any other means is far more reasonable and sensible.
And you and the family can be enjoying it as a boat, by the end of this month.
justanothersailboat
Active member
Unless I misread some details the boat's pretty special - and from later posts SvenH seems to have also bought the project already? He's also clearly someone with craft skills and the compulsion to use them, a condition with which I can empathise. Telling him he's made a terrible mistake at this point seems both a bit tactless and quite possibly wrong.
Reading between the lines (cold moulded, best of size, height and length of cabin top) my guess is it's a nice hull which has been graced with a coachroof too small for a tall guy and family to cruise, perhaps it has more of a day racing arrangement, and he thinks it'll still be elegant enough if given enough space to cook standing up. If this is the ONLY change it is a big project but a sensible one (he could easily buy a duller boat with more living space, but it will not be the same) and if he cracks on it might be the kind of "project" he could be sailing next year. If other things are wrong and need tearing out and replacing, he is in for a very hard time. But he clearly isn't the kind of dreamer who doesn't understand that, and we've not seen the boat, so I have to trust his judgement.
Given that neither of his options are "screwdriver distance" Sven probably needs the yard with good opening hours - though if there is the option to rent a bit of shed space that might be the deciding factor so he can cut wood and ply out of the rain and build up a perfect-fitting "kit" on weekends before a short but frantic installation phase using time off work. I found it easier on family to be gone for a long day and get enough done to feel happy spending the whole next day on them, than having short days and getting frustrated needing to go back the next day to finish stuff. And a 9/10 year old is unlikely to be able to help much with structural stuff but will probably love joining in (and be a real help) when it's time to finish the wood and make the cabin homelike. Mine rocks at brushing on lacquer, she's more patient than I am and has a lighter touch. Then it's "our boat" rather than "dad's boat".
Reading between the lines (cold moulded, best of size, height and length of cabin top) my guess is it's a nice hull which has been graced with a coachroof too small for a tall guy and family to cruise, perhaps it has more of a day racing arrangement, and he thinks it'll still be elegant enough if given enough space to cook standing up. If this is the ONLY change it is a big project but a sensible one (he could easily buy a duller boat with more living space, but it will not be the same) and if he cracks on it might be the kind of "project" he could be sailing next year. If other things are wrong and need tearing out and replacing, he is in for a very hard time. But he clearly isn't the kind of dreamer who doesn't understand that, and we've not seen the boat, so I have to trust his judgement.
Given that neither of his options are "screwdriver distance" Sven probably needs the yard with good opening hours - though if there is the option to rent a bit of shed space that might be the deciding factor so he can cut wood and ply out of the rain and build up a perfect-fitting "kit" on weekends before a short but frantic installation phase using time off work. I found it easier on family to be gone for a long day and get enough done to feel happy spending the whole next day on them, than having short days and getting frustrated needing to go back the next day to finish stuff. And a 9/10 year old is unlikely to be able to help much with structural stuff but will probably love joining in (and be a real help) when it's time to finish the wood and make the cabin homelike. Mine rocks at brushing on lacquer, she's more patient than I am and has a lighter touch. Then it's "our boat" rather than "dad's boat".
