Wansworth
Well-Known Member
can this boatbe classified as a good seaboat?
SEAMASTER 23 SAILER
- Thread starter Wansworth
- Start date
LORDNELSON
Well-Known Member
Taking into account the size of the boat and limitations imposed if you are considering the centreboard version, Yes, I think it is a good seaboat. I sailed my father-in-laws Seamaster Sailor 23 (CB version) on many occasions during the 1970/1980's and was never worried by a lack of control or her ability to deal with quite rough seas. I was however only sailing in the English Channel (Beachy Head to Salcombe) and only crossed to France on one occasion. We very much enjoyed sailing her and found her to be a comfortable boat for our family (2 adults, 3 small children).
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that.
jerryat
Well-Known Member
I'm afraid I disagree with Lord Nelson. A close friend of mine had one for a couple of years and couldn't wait to get shot of it. We sailed it a lot and it was fine for nipping down the coast and a VERY carefully judged trip X channel.
We found it relatively unstable in big seas/highish winds and had to reef far earlier than a fixed keel boat would have needed to, simply to retain control and stop her repeatedly rounding up and stopping. Helming was very wishy-washy (rudder too small?) so almost impossible to find a 'groove' to keep her in.
Whether it was the keel, or too small a rudder, I don't know, but we got little pleasure from her. If they did a fixed keel version, that may be better, but I have no experience of that type.
Ok, these are personal views, and for coastal use and the odd X channel in FAIRISH weather, I guess she'd be ok. But this does not make her a good sea boat, which in my definition, should be able to look after you in pretty well any weather.
Sorry to sound negative, but as Lord N points out, within limits ok.
We found it relatively unstable in big seas/highish winds and had to reef far earlier than a fixed keel boat would have needed to, simply to retain control and stop her repeatedly rounding up and stopping. Helming was very wishy-washy (rudder too small?) so almost impossible to find a 'groove' to keep her in.
Whether it was the keel, or too small a rudder, I don't know, but we got little pleasure from her. If they did a fixed keel version, that may be better, but I have no experience of that type.
Ok, these are personal views, and for coastal use and the odd X channel in FAIRISH weather, I guess she'd be ok. But this does not make her a good sea boat, which in my definition, should be able to look after you in pretty well any weather.
Sorry to sound negative, but as Lord N points out, within limits ok.
G
Guest
Guest
Have known various owners of these ...
I would say that the 99% were pleased with the boats and found them reasonably safe ... you have to remember that we are taling about a 23ft boat and of older design.
The stub keel places weight down low better than a lot of other lift keel jobs, but still does not equal the lead of a fin etc. lower down.
Taking her as a small boat - and recognising that venturing out in bad weather is not reccomended ........ yes they are a good boat ...
I would say that the 99% were pleased with the boats and found them reasonably safe ... you have to remember that we are taling about a 23ft boat and of older design.
The stub keel places weight down low better than a lot of other lift keel jobs, but still does not equal the lead of a fin etc. lower down.
Taking her as a small boat - and recognising that venturing out in bad weather is not reccomended ........ yes they are a good boat ...
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Re: Have known various owners of these ...
Being a design from Giles I had expected a unanimous thumbs up so to speak,back to the drawing board,thanks to all!
Being a design from Giles I had expected a unanimous thumbs up so to speak,back to the drawing board,thanks to all!
G
Guest
Guest
It has a thumbs up ....
But I and others just pointed out that its 23ft and not an ocean crosser !! You have to live with its size ... I have a 25ft boat and its heavy ... solid and safe - same as the Seamaster 23 ... but I would not like to have it out in strong bad weather ... its small !!
But I and others just pointed out that its 23ft and not an ocean crosser !! You have to live with its size ... I have a 25ft boat and its heavy ... solid and safe - same as the Seamaster 23 ... but I would not like to have it out in strong bad weather ... its small !!
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Yes I understand about thatb but the general trend of the replys seemed a bit off putting and I can imagine there could be problems with directional stability.The boat is for sale and I was considering the idea,with what I now know I would not put her high on the list,thanks for all advice . regards
Yes I understand about thatb but the general trend of the replys seemed a bit off putting and I can imagine there could be problems with directional stability.The boat is for sale and I was considering the idea,with what I now know I would not put her high on the list,thanks for all advice . regards
fireball
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Well a friend of mine has one and seems happy with it .. enough to re-engine it too (not a cheap pasttime) ...
With a 2'6" draft (plate up) it is a superb boat for shallow harbours.
A lift keel is either a want or a don't want - No, they won't be quite as good as a deep keel counterpart upwind, but they're better than a shorter keel counterpart - leeway is the greater evil then ... too much sail can be sorted, going sideways is more difficult to fix.
Most of these boats will survive more than you are prepared to throw at them, and I'd rather it was that way round!!
So, yes, a Seamaster 23 sail is a good little boat, providing you want a 23' lifting keel yacht....
Well a friend of mine has one and seems happy with it .. enough to re-engine it too (not a cheap pasttime) ...
With a 2'6" draft (plate up) it is a superb boat for shallow harbours.
A lift keel is either a want or a don't want - No, they won't be quite as good as a deep keel counterpart upwind, but they're better than a shorter keel counterpart - leeway is the greater evil then ... too much sail can be sorted, going sideways is more difficult to fix.
Most of these boats will survive more than you are prepared to throw at them, and I'd rather it was that way round!!
So, yes, a Seamaster 23 sail is a good little boat, providing you want a 23' lifting keel yacht....
T_S
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
I take it by the remarks posted here the Seamaster 23 is not upto much compared to boats like an Anderson 22 then Nigel?
I take it by the remarks posted here the Seamaster 23 is not upto much compared to boats like an Anderson 22 then Nigel?
DonRyles
New Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
I'm perfectly happy to take mine over the North Sea from the East Coast to the Netherlands, Belgium, or France each year. Never get there very fast but always know that I'll get there safely.
I'm perfectly happy to take mine over the North Sea from the East Coast to the Netherlands, Belgium, or France each year. Never get there very fast but always know that I'll get there safely.
graham
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Its unfair to compare an Anderson 22 with a Seamaster 23 as they are completely different boats.
I sailed on a Seamaster 23 a few times and in company with one several times.
The Anderson is faster but the Seamaster sails reasonably well and has a lot more accomodation space and headroom.generally a much more comfortable boat to live on.
They usually have a small diesel inboard whereas most Anderson 22s use an outboard in the cockpit well.
Both are strongly built drop keel yachts and have proved themselves at Sea.
I remember the Seamaster being a pleasant boat to sail without any particular vices.
Seamaster 23
Anderson22
Its unfair to compare an Anderson 22 with a Seamaster 23 as they are completely different boats.
I sailed on a Seamaster 23 a few times and in company with one several times.
The Anderson is faster but the Seamaster sails reasonably well and has a lot more accomodation space and headroom.generally a much more comfortable boat to live on.
They usually have a small diesel inboard whereas most Anderson 22s use an outboard in the cockpit well.
Both are strongly built drop keel yachts and have proved themselves at Sea.
I remember the Seamaster being a pleasant boat to sail without any particular vices.
Seamaster 23
Anderson22
ashanta
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
I owned a seamaster 23 for a number of years and took my wife and kids all over the place Xchannel etc. If you set up the rig properly as you should you will get no more demands from her than any other vessel. She is actually quite heavy for 23ft and sails very well. (as you say Laurent Giles didnt design a bad boat) There are different hull configs and mine was the CB and as long as I used the drop keel properly she sailed very well indeed. There are fin and bilge versions also.
One point about reefing. Often people like to fit roller reefing forwards and when it blows up they tend to reef the foresail first. This will cause the boat to behave badly and encourage it to keep luffing up. If the main is reefed at appropriate times the vessel will remain well balanced.
Please do not be put off by previous comments. There a good safe boat for reasonable price.
Regards.
Peter.
I owned a seamaster 23 for a number of years and took my wife and kids all over the place Xchannel etc. If you set up the rig properly as you should you will get no more demands from her than any other vessel. She is actually quite heavy for 23ft and sails very well. (as you say Laurent Giles didnt design a bad boat) There are different hull configs and mine was the CB and as long as I used the drop keel properly she sailed very well indeed. There are fin and bilge versions also.
One point about reefing. Often people like to fit roller reefing forwards and when it blows up they tend to reef the foresail first. This will cause the boat to behave badly and encourage it to keep luffing up. If the main is reefed at appropriate times the vessel will remain well balanced.
Please do not be put off by previous comments. There a good safe boat for reasonable price.
Regards.
Peter.
Wansworth
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Right!! I will take another look at the seamaster at least not cross it off as yet. regards Andrew.
Right!! I will take another look at the seamaster at least not cross it off as yet. regards Andrew.
jerryat
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Quite right, keep it on the list and try it for yourself, but do make SURE you do a decent length test sail in lumpy conditions before parting with the 'hard-earned'. Most boats are 'fine' in reasonable weather/seas, but your original post asked if it was a 'good sea boat'!
Depends what your definition of that quality is, and that may well be different from everyone elses, so it's best to make up your own mind.
I hope you are very happy with whatever you ultimately choose!
Quite right, keep it on the list and try it for yourself, but do make SURE you do a decent length test sail in lumpy conditions before parting with the 'hard-earned'. Most boats are 'fine' in reasonable weather/seas, but your original post asked if it was a 'good sea boat'!
Depends what your definition of that quality is, and that may well be different from everyone elses, so it's best to make up your own mind.
I hope you are very happy with whatever you ultimately choose!
G
Guest
Guest
Cheeky .... not quite what I said ...
It was all general and revolves around having a heavy stub keel as well as the lift job ...
Now please don't draw me out on this .... unfair !!!!
Let's put it a better way .... Compare a small Limbo and a Seamaster ... now whats the question ? Limbo's - luv 'em and fast .. etc. But as a cruise boat ... not really same league as the Seamaster ....
Naughty Naughty ..... !!
It was all general and revolves around having a heavy stub keel as well as the lift job ...
Now please don't draw me out on this .... unfair !!!!
Let's put it a better way .... Compare a small Limbo and a Seamaster ... now whats the question ? Limbo's - luv 'em and fast .. etc. But as a cruise boat ... not really same league as the Seamaster ....
Naughty Naughty ..... !!
T_S
Well-Known Member
Re: Cheeky .... not quite what I said ...
The only point I was going to make Nigel that although the Seamaster is not really my cup of tea, it is quite capable of crossing the channel as with most pocket cruisers of similar size.
The Anderson I am led to believe was raced across the Atlantic! Not that I am that brave! But large boats do not always stand for safer sailing, as you can appreciate it is all down to the competence of the person whom is in control of the vessel!
Regards....Dave
The only point I was going to make Nigel that although the Seamaster is not really my cup of tea, it is quite capable of crossing the channel as with most pocket cruisers of similar size.
The Anderson I am led to believe was raced across the Atlantic! Not that I am that brave! But large boats do not always stand for safer sailing, as you can appreciate it is all down to the competence of the person whom is in control of the vessel!
Regards....Dave
T_S
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
I wasn't being unfair, but about to point out that size is not everything!
For example for the past few years I have been refitting and modifying a Seal 22 which is due to take a swim around March next year.
Although I could purchase a larger boat, the sole purpose of this boat is to have the advantage of sailing up shallow creeks and salt marshes around the Essex coast which a boat of 25 foot and above can't.
I shall also be sailing her over to France and Holland too!
I wasn't being unfair, but about to point out that size is not everything!
For example for the past few years I have been refitting and modifying a Seal 22 which is due to take a swim around March next year.
Although I could purchase a larger boat, the sole purpose of this boat is to have the advantage of sailing up shallow creeks and salt marshes around the Essex coast which a boat of 25 foot and above can't.
I shall also be sailing her over to France and Holland too!
graham
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
I completely agree with you that a larger boat is not allways a good idea.
An extra meter in LOA may make a boat more comfortable to live on but it also doubles the cost of any replacement parts .
Every year we consider going for a larger boat but havent yet got up enough enthusiasm to actually do it.
I enjoy creeping into some of the smaller creeks and harbours not accesible easilly by larger yachts.
3 Anderson 22s have completed the minitransat race. Bob Salmon did the first in "Anderson Affair" He completed the passage to Antigua in 30 days to be the first British boat to arrive .Unfortunately he grounded heavilly on a Coral Reef close to the finish then spent the night thumping on the reef the keel parted company with the boat but he managed to scull it over the finish line but would not accept his placing as he was towed off the reef by a motorboat which was against the rules. A lesser boat would have broken up.
I hope the Seal refit is going well.
I completely agree with you that a larger boat is not allways a good idea.
An extra meter in LOA may make a boat more comfortable to live on but it also doubles the cost of any replacement parts .
Every year we consider going for a larger boat but havent yet got up enough enthusiasm to actually do it.
I enjoy creeping into some of the smaller creeks and harbours not accesible easilly by larger yachts.
3 Anderson 22s have completed the minitransat race. Bob Salmon did the first in "Anderson Affair" He completed the passage to Antigua in 30 days to be the first British boat to arrive .Unfortunately he grounded heavilly on a Coral Reef close to the finish then spent the night thumping on the reef the keel parted company with the boat but he managed to scull it over the finish line but would not accept his placing as he was towed off the reef by a motorboat which was against the rules. A lesser boat would have broken up.
I hope the Seal refit is going well.
T_S
Well-Known Member
Re: It has a thumbs up ....
Well Graham I have reached some kind of compromise......the money I save by not throwing at a large boat for moorings, maintenance etc. Is spent on a damm good holiday each year sailing in Greek waters! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
As for my Seal refit...it has all gone well and not really cost the earth either, although I do intend soon buying a new O/B and a spray hood for her!
Well Graham I have reached some kind of compromise......the money I save by not throwing at a large boat for moorings, maintenance etc. Is spent on a damm good holiday each year sailing in Greek waters! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
As for my Seal refit...it has all gone well and not really cost the earth either, although I do intend soon buying a new O/B and a spray hood for her!