Raymarine Autopilot Upgrade-is it worthwhile?

[robbieg]

I currently have a Raymarine Smart Pilot 10 (SPX10) driving a Type 1 Linear drive. The autopilot has a gyro and a rudder sensor and is pretty good. However, downwind in quartering seas it can still struggle a bit and is sometimes a bit slow to respond to boat movements. A good pilot I can trust is important since I single hand a lot -hence if the Evolution is a materially better pilot I may be tempted..

I have been looking at the Raymarine EV1 with an ACU200 computer which will work with my existing linear drive. This new autopilot is on the sea talk ng system so I will need a convertor but I should be able to get it to work with my original sea talk kit and so the upgrade should be relatively straightforward.

However, the only reason for doing the upgrade is if the new Evolution heading sensor is likely to be a material improvement over my SPX10 system in terms of handing the boat in a downwind/quartering sea situation. Raymarine's technical site suggests the Evolution heading unit has lots of sensors and should be far better at knowing the boats position (and hence responding quickly to boat movement) than the SPX systems it replaced. However, the upgrade is not cheap and before I go to the expense and hassle I would be grateful from any comment from those using the Evolution autopilot especially if you have upgraded from the SPX range.

Thanks.

 

[prv]

I upgraded from an S1, which I believe is the generation before the SPX. My main reason was compatibility with the new plotter, which had dropped support for Seatalk1 pilots, plus the improved performance you are also hoping for. The S1 did sometimes struggle in a quartering sea.

I did the job a few weeks ago, which was straightforward enough except that the AHRS (it's much more than just a compass nowadays) is a very different shape to the old gimballed fluxgate and I needed to make some woodwork alterations for my particular installation. However due to weather etc I've only been out for a brief commissioning sea-trial under power. Certainly the course-keeping seemed very stable and accurate, but of course just motoring up and down Southampton Water (albeit on a 20-25kt day) wasn't a very thorough test.

If you like, I'll try to remember to report back with my experience when I do get out under sail.

Also worth noting that the improved heading data has made a noticeable improvement to the radar, which is a bonus if you have that.

Pete

 

[robbieg]

Thanks for the prompt reply. As and when you have any further information on performance under sail you are able to share if you can post your experience that would be really helpful.

Robert

 

[lpdsn]

I've an EV-1 and I'm quite impressed with it. It's pretty expensive though especially given that the chip at the heart of it isn't supposed to be that expensive itself.

One mistake I made was buying the new electronics and keeping the old linear drive. The pack that includes a new linear drive wasn't a great deal more than the pack that was just electronics and the original drive is now getting old and I wish I'd gone for a new one when I could get it cheap.

I got a spam e-mail very recently about a special offer Cactus Nav are doing on the packs, so worth you looking that up.

I've played a bit with looking at the PGNs (N2K messages) given off by the EV-1 and it is much more than just a compass. It allows the autopilot to understand the rolling and pitching of the boat as well as trim and heel/list. Really though that's all smartphone technology.

It will work the rudder a bit in quartering seas but I've never had a problem - but to be honest I would hand steer under sail more than 90% of the time even when single-handed. I was really impressed with it the time we had to get the spinnaker down one night when the wind got too much so it required both of us to be on the foredeck.

 

[prv]

It's pretty expensive though especially given that the chip at the heart of it isn't supposed to be that expensive itself.

As you say, multi-axis accelerometers and solid-state compasses are a commodity item nowadays thanks to smartphones; I don't know whether Raymarine uses those standard parts or something more accurate - quite possibly the former. What you're mostly buying, though, isn't the hardware but Raymarine's work in using that input to steer a yacht effectively, especially without human tuning.

Pete

 

[lpdsn]

What you're mostly buying, though, isn't the hardware but Raymarine's work in using that input to steer a yacht effectively, especially without human tuning.

Pete

I thought what I was buying was defence contractor inefficiencies and a large profit margin, but at the moment there isn't the competition.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

I fitted an ACU 400 V70 and fluxgate with a type2 Linear drive to my 45 footers 2 years ago. It appears to take in the sea state conditions and to be honest I have had more boat speed using this system to steer the boat than off a human including myself.

 

[prv]

I thought what I was buying was defence contractor inefficiencies and a large profit margin, but at the moment there isn't the competition.

I don't know why you'd want to buy either of those things. If you just want some accelerometers, they're about £5 each on eBay - that's including some interfacing stuff, not just the device itself, for use by build-your-own-drone hobbyists.

Good luck getting the sensors to steer your yacht, though.

Pete

 

[robbieg]

Thanks. Some helpful comments. Anyone else with experience of the upgrade please let me know.

 

[Poey50]

I've installed an EV-100 (ACU-100 unit, EV-1 sensor, P70s control head, tiller pilot and cable set) on my Sadler 32 this winter. I also added a Micro-Talk gateway to connect to wireless instruments. I haven't tested it yet but will do so next month and can report back if the information is still needed. I would certainly agree that buying a complete package is a great deal cheaper than individual units. I got mine during the boat show week (when most online prices were lowered whether boat show or not).

 

[robbieg]

Poey50 Thanks. Whats the micro-talk gateway for? Is it to get NMEA0183 talking to Seatalkng?

Robert

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Hi,
I upgraded to an Raymarine EV1 with an ACU200 2 years ago on a Southerly 46RS, which has a centre board, so is very quick to respond to the helm, especially when sailing quickly in a quartering sea.

It replaced an SPX (with internal accelerometers) system, which uses a fluxgate compass for heading, but I retained the Lewmar Mamba rotary drive and the i70p control heads.

I'm quite impressed by the performance, it's substantially better than the SPX, especially in a quartering sea.

The EVO1 also has the advantage of being less susceptible to the magnetic effects of raising and lowering the centre board, which is 2.5tons of cast iron, and that use to induce a change if the heading of the fluxgate by 30 degrees or so.

A word of caution, when first installed, it takes a while to self calibrate, the manual says it doesn't need to be sailed in circles, but on my first trip, I turned back after a couple of hours, because I was unsure whether the heading sensor was working properly, but by the time I got back to the marina, it had clearly sorted itself out.

 

[skyflyer]

Unimpresssed with my ST4000 wheel drive, so upgraded to SP5X wheel drive and it was almost no better. Eventually went for Type 1 linear and EV1 and its the dogs b's. Very happy with the performance in all conditions. Its also a cinch to install, apart from the drive itself.

 

[prv]

Unimpresssed with my ST4000 wheel drive, so upgraded to SP5X wheel drive and it was almost no better. Eventually went for Type 1 linear and EV1 and its the dogs b's. Very happy with the performance in all conditions. Its also a cinch to install, apart from the drive itself.

That's probably as much about the decent drive instead of the rattly plastic contraption, as the better sensors and smarter control algorithms

Pete

 

[skyflyer]

That's probably as much about the decent drive instead of the rattly plastic contraption, as the better sensors and smarter control algorithms

Pete

I would have thought the same Pete, if it wasnt for the fact that other owners of the same boat report on the owners association forum that even changing to the RV1 produces a significant improvement. Having said that I have heard diametrically opposed reports about the change in performance when you fit a rudder reference unit. All i know is that the combination works well for me!

 

[lpdsn]

A word of caution, when first installed, it takes a while to self calibrate, the manual says it doesn't need to be sailed in circles, but on my first trip, I turned back after a couple of hours, because I was unsure whether the heading sensor was working properly, but by the time I got back to the marina, it had clearly sorted itself out.

Which manual said that? The p70 manual which covers commissioning says that it'll need at least a 270 degree turn for compass linearization and that a 360 degree turn will speed up the process.

 

[prv]

A word of caution, when first installed, it takes a while to self calibrate, the manual says it doesn't need to be sailed in circles, but on my first trip, I turned back after a couple of hours, because I was unsure whether the heading sensor was working properly, but by the time I got back to the marina, it had clearly sorted itself out.

The current control head displays a bar graph along the bottom indicating "how calibrated" it is. Mine was slowly edging upwards (but still less than a third full) as I twisted and turned down the river, then when I got into open water and started to turn in a circle it began shooting up and reached the end before I had gone 360°. At that point a message popped up telling me that it was calibrated but would continue to update itself in the background, and the bar graph disappeared.

Pete

 

[Ian_Edwards]

Which manual said that? The p70 manual which covers commissioning says that it'll need at least a 270 degree turn for compass linearization and that a 360 degree turn will speed up the process.

Page 1 of the Evo manual:

Automatic set-up — the rudder gain, counter rudder, manual
compass calibration and autolearn settings required for existing
SPX systems are no longer required. This results in a greatly
simplified dockside calibration process for Evolution autopilot
systems.

You still have to run the dockside calibration wizard:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]For vessels without
a rudder reference
transducer[/TD]
[TD]For vessels with a rudder
reference transducer:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Drive Type selection[/TD]
[TD]Drive Type selection[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Align Rudder (rudder alignment)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rudder Limit setting[/TD]
[TD]Rudder Limit setting[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hard Over Time (if you do not
already know your hard over time,
you should skip this step in the
Dockside Wizard and enter the
value manually afterwards.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rudder Drive check[/TD]
[TD]Rudder Drive check[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The rest is automatic, but it assumes that you turn at least 270 degrees, which many boats would do as part of their normal activity, but you don't have to sail in a circle until the fluxgate compass is happy.

I think the reason it took so long to auto calibrate on my Southerly is the large 4 ton grounding plate and the 2.5 ton swinging keel, which most have quite a large effect of the local magnetic field.

I also experimented to find the best location for the EV1, and ended up putting about mid ships, on the centre line and above the headlining in the saloon.

 

[lpdsn]

Page 1 of the Evo manual:

Automatic set-up — the rudder gain, counter rudder, manual
compass calibration and autolearn settings required for existing
SPX systems are no longer required. This results in a greatly
simplified dockside calibration process for Evolution autopilot
systems.

You still have to run the dockside calibration wizard:

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 500"]
[TR]
[TD]For vessels without
a rudder reference
transducer[/TD]
[TD]For vessels with a rudder
reference transducer:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Drive Type selection[/TD]
[TD]Drive Type selection[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]Align Rudder (rudder alignment)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rudder Limit setting[/TD]
[TD]Rudder Limit setting[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Hard Over Time (if you do not
already know your hard over time,
you should skip this step in the
Dockside Wizard and enter the
value manually afterwards.[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rudder Drive check[/TD]
[TD]Rudder Drive check[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The rest is automatic, but it assumes that you turn at least 270 degrees, which many boats would do as part of their normal activity, but you don't have to sail in a circle until the fluxgate compass is happy.

I think the reason it took so long to auto calibrate on my Southerly is the large 4 ton grounding plate and the 2.5 ton swinging keel, which most have quite a large effect of the local magnetic field.

I also experimented to find the best location for the EV1, and ended up putting about mid ships, on the centre line and above the headlining in the saloon.

Look in Section 7.9 of the p70 manual (dated 02-2014). It says exactly what I paraphrased in my earlier post.

In your situation with so much deviation it might well be worth using the feature that allows you to use the GPS for linearization. I haven't tried it myself but have thought about it.

 

[Poey50]

Poey50 Thanks. Whats the micro-talk gateway for? Is it to get NMEA0183 talking to Seatalkng?

Yes it connects Raymarine micronet (wireless systems) to SeatalkNG.