Newbie, so please be gentle!

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the_gent

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Hi to everybody, I have been lurking for a while and am now diving in. At 55yrs old I have decided I can at last afford my first boat and am hoping to get a 1989 Bayliner 2958 command bridge in a few weeks time.

I understand I shall need a good bit of training, at least one four day course, lots of safety equipment, experience and petrol to achieve my dream of boating down to the south of France / Spain (just hope I get there before my best before date expires)!

I have been trawling the net looking at available boats in the UK and visited a few dealers yards and was surprised that the fly bridge variety (in my price range) are not that readily available. Is this because they should be avoided, are simply not popular, or never came in in large numbers?

Obviously I will get it surveyed before parting with my dosh, but am I buying a poor variety? With the UK weather, it seemed to be to be the best option?

I suppose I should also ask if people think I have completly lost it even considering taking up boating at my age?

Just looking for a bit of guidance & look forward to any comments,

Regards,

Peter
 
Hi and Wecome.
Fly bridge models dont normaly start below 33 foot. why bayliner? there are loads of good boats of other makes out there. The only thing I would watch out for are the engines, being made in the USA. They are mainly petrol, can hit the pocket hard, with the cost of fuel. I'm sure your gets loads of help from this group.
Good luck.
John
 
hiya. Boats you can sleep on are not very numerous, really. If you pick a particular make and model there won't be dozens or hundreds, like a car - there'll be a handful.

No direct exp of the make tho hugely numerous in the US. Enginewise, you will have trouble on the coast getting petrol - diesel is far more common to be found in every harbour.
 
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Hi and Wecome.
Fly bridge models dont normaly start below 33 foot. why bayliner? there are loads of good boats of other makes out there.
John

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Value for money is my main reason I guess. Sub £30k used 27-30 footers NON flybridge I have seen in brokers look so tired on the surface, goodness knows what the engines and ancileries are like! If I knew what I was doing, I would have even considered importing myself, but I wont :-)
 
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Enginewise, you will have trouble on the coast getting petrol - diesel is far more common to be found in every harbour.

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Is petrol really that dificult to obtain around the UK, near continental coast? Two "salesmen" I have asked said no problem, but most of their boats were petrol, so I suppose I should have expected that answer?
 
Hello and welcome.Presume that you will be using your new boat in the Essex area to start with or mebbe elsewhere?.That boat is a fairly large one to be powered by petrol in UK terms and while a smaller craft is fine with petrol,guess you will have difficulty popping that 2958 on a trailer and nipping round to Tesco for some cheap fuel.Petrol is not only hard to find,but will be outrageously expensive,others can quote chapter and verse dependant on your engines,but do not be suprised if a day out costs you a hundred quid.Range will also be very limited maybe due to petrol tank size.The reason that that boats under 35ft or so were not amonster success is due to rolly poly action when sitting up top,it is very unnerving,bigger craft tend to damp out violent to and fro stuff a bit more.
Ps.the novelty of lugging 5 gallon cans in and out of the boot of your car on the boat and getting it into the tanks wears off very quickly and Tescos staff can and will turn off pump if they spot you filling up with 20 gallons of instant flames.
If you really want the boat then of course buy it,nobody,including me ever takes any notice whatsever of good advice posted on here but loads of us have been standing in the boatyard exactly where you are today with a bundle of cash burning a hole in our pocket and watching common sense wave goodbye as it walks off up the road. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
not sure its quite true, but I ve heard it said the UK/europe boat builders would build the desired boat, and then see what it cost, whereas USA would build to a price. Theres often a bit of turned up noses at bayliners because their build quality tends to be at the lower end, but then probably more people around the world have boated in a bayliner than any other make. If the reason you have singled out these boats is price, then its probably cheaper because of those petrol engines. Diesel angines cost more int he first place, and running twin petrols might well terrify you. Some one here probably knows, but i d guess 15-20 gals per hour, and marina prices for petrol are not your tesco prices either! Some locations petrol may be easy to find, but check- its not much use if its 50 miles to your nearest supply. The actual cost of your boat is perhaps less what you buy it for, more the difference between what you buy it for and what you sell it for. Thats why some make/models seem expensive- theres always a demand for them. Buy a boat few people want, and no one will want it when you come to sell it. Lastly, everyone will tell you that you wont get your choice of boat right first time, so dont think this boat is the one you ll be keeping !!
But hope you get afloat in time for the summer.
 
Go for a diesel boat, you will later see the benefits, dont listen to salesmen, they have a vested interest. Go for something about 33 feet for a flybridge, IMHO. Oh! By the way, welcome to the forum!
 
Hi Peter - and welcome. So your budget is approx £30k. I can see why you would go for this Bayliner, coz its damn big for your money. Incidentally BL have (and do) make smaller flybridge boats, and the comment that you don't normally see them below 33feet is correct, but bear in mind that in the USA, there is a hell of a lot of lake boating and sheltered coastal boating goes on, where this type of boat is really best suited. Smaler flybridges don't seem that populaer here in the the UK coz the water is rough round here - and the last one I saw for sale was actually on Loch Lomond...another lake boat!

Now to the engines. I hope you have got deep pockets coz those twin petrols will burn up (at cruising speeds) 20 gallons an hour if you are nice to it and at £5+ per gallon, thats over 100 an hour, which kinda takes the edge off the enjoyment in my opinion. If you are determined then get the motors thoroughly checked out. These girls are old!! Check out the cooling systems, including the two pumps per engine and the two risers and manifolds. These items have a max life of 5 years. Does it have a service history that makes sense?

Before jumping in, do a search on the many internet search facilities for boats at around £30k and see what alternatives come up.

By the way, surveys don't always show up what they should (and I should know!!) so find a locally respected surveyor - not one appointed by the broker (like I did).

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
 
I agree with the others. I started my boating career with a 27' petrol powered boat and, although the boat itself was fine, putting £300 of petrol (that was 1989, probably £500 now) in the thing every weekend was a big turn-off and then there was the problem of using jerry cans to fill her up sometimes 'coz we could'nt get shoreside petrol. Within months I had chopped her in for a diesel powered boat
I really would advise you to up your budget to, say, £50k and look for a diesel powered boat. The interest cost of financing that extra £20k by marine mortgage would be much less than the fuel saving you would make, not to mention the extra pleasure you would get from the boat
The reason why many manufacturers dont offer flybridge models below 30' is that the additional weight of the flybridge reduces the stability of the boat too much and the extra windage can make sterndrive boats a handful to manouevre at slow speed. In fact I would say dont buy a flybridge boat that does'nt have shaftdrive propulsion
On the other hand, personally I dont think that sports boats with canvas tops are exactly ideal for our climate because the tops leak and are a complete pain to put up and take down. A good compromise is a hardtop boat such as offered by the likes of Nimbus, Aquador, Jeanneau, Beneteau, Hardy, Saga, Targa, SB and others
 
One of the problems with the current hard tops is how stupid the driver looks with his head sticking through the sunroof. Bit like a 6 and half foot basket ball player driving a fiat 127. Small hard tops are a bad compromise with the worst of both worlds. You don't get the openeness of a sports cruiser, with the wind in your hair without looking stupid. You don't get the social open cockpit of a sports cruiser and you don't get the home from home, front room setup of a flybridge.

Wouldn't get a petrol if you intend using your boat, like Mike says the hidden cost of the mortgage is much easier to swallow than seeing £200 a weekend disapearing into the fuel tanks.

There are some twin diesel boats available for around 30k but they will be old and smallish. For 10k more you'll get a targa 27 with diesels, good sea boat with a v berth setup plus aft cabin. For around 50k you can get a Targa 33 (actually about 37') see HERE for an example. These make excellent family boats and also a good first boat.

For a newer boat for the same sort of money look at some of the american imports such as Sea Ray. Tons of these about.
 
What you really should be considering is a well proven hull linked with an interior designed to maximise living space twinned with a med style cockpit for sun lounging.

Furthermore one with twin diesels , not 20 year old ones but rather ones that have just been run in, that are cheap to service unlike the dreaded V**v*s and give all the pace of petrols at a whole lot less running cost.

Lastly one that has been looked after and obsessively maintained.

Something like 'Bermuda' in fact!!
 
The driver need only stick his head when mooring so not really a problem. In fact much less of a problem than having to peer through the forward plastic bits of a canvas top when driving which may not look silly but is potentially dangerous. As for wind in hair, with average UK weather, I'd rather have a wussy hardtop than freezing cold wind and rain in whats left of my hair. Dont agree about cockpits either. Most hardtop boats have an open cockpit in the back where you can be sociable in the open air
I suppose an open boat is better on a fine hot day but those are all too rare in the UK
 
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The driver need only stick his head when mooring so not really a problem

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But surely the wind in your hair is one of the great things about boating. Do you always drive from inside or would you rather be on the flybridge?

With a hard top you're either inside or looking like a pillock.

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fact much less of a problem than having to peer through the forward plastic bits of a canvas top when driving which may not look silly but is potentially dangerous

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No problem, just unzip the section of window as required. Again much better than having your whole boat open to the elements if you are in a situation which requires the covers to be up in the first place.

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Most hardtop boats have an open cockpit in the back where you can be sociable in the open air

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Very limited 'open' seating as the silly roof takes up most of the sky light. I expect that unless you have your stern facing towards the sun, must of the aft seating area is in the shade anyway..

And what about that new Sealine SC29 hard top, how crap does that look... Sealine SC29
 
hard/soft tops kevb

ah well, here's a subject on which i can (at last) agree with kevb.

I must say the LOADS of the curent crop of hardtop boats look blimmin awful! Whereas I saw an eytie 40 ish footer on saturday (no curves, no bimini) that was fab.

I am a bit cautious sunwise so wd always have bimini in the med. But hardtops - urgh!

Nearest acceptable is probly the princess 58
 
If its cold, wet or spray about, I'll drive from inside. I've done wind in hair and its bloody freezing. Joking aside, there are some safety issues with canvas tops IMHO and I've had a few of them including a S37. Often you set out in calm weather with the top down only to find that the wind pipes up and spray is coming over the windscreen. You then erect the forward part of the canopy whilst the boat is bucking around in the waves which is highly dangerous, particularly if somebody has to go out on deck to attach those bloody poppers. Then, if you have to stand up to see over the bow whilst on the plane (as with most boats) then you are looking through plastic panels which are usually opaque and obviously not cleared by the wipers so you see very little. You open one of the forward panels to see better, get soaked and wish you bought a hardtop
Agree the SC29 looks like a dog but plenty dont (see last months MBY test which, if I remember correctly stated that hardtops are outselling canvas tops by a large factor for models where both are offered)
 
Re: hard/soft tops kevb

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(at last)

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That's just not fair. This implies you think most of the time I talk Bollox!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I'm probably biased but here is another sexy Italian hard top.

This hard top I wouldn't mind, although it's over 50' so is not included in my thoughts about samll hard tops.....
11_1b.jpg


More pictures HERE
 
Yes, agree. Getting the covers up in a swell can be a bit of a challange. Especially if it's pi$$ing down with rain and you're getting soaked. Only happened a couple of times so not too worried. Was arriving at Saint Quay Portrieux last year when the heavens opened like I've never seen before. Didn't even attempt to put the covers up as it was an instant soaking. Quite refreshing though cause it was bloody hot.
 
Re: hard/soft tops kevb

or ,it cd beb me talking bollx. But this is opinion thing.

anyway, the boat in pic looks good cos nice girly on board, blue hull, and also cos the background is a load of slums.

amazing sexy 38ish footer itlaian on saturday, cor, no bimini nor nuthin. Will try and find pic...
 
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