Sailing a ketch

Tim O

Tim O

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Can anyone point me to any good books, or online resources, about the basics and finer details of actually SAILING a ketch......different sail configurations etc under different conditions. I have usual main, mizzen, Genoa, plus mizzen staysail, and trisail to play with......all new to me as a sloop sailor up to now.

This post is guaranteed free from anchors, electronics, sealants and battery charging.......it's about sailing! ??
 
Hello, cant think off any good books but we also sail a ketch. We have the same sails as you plus a staysail on a furler and a spinnaker. Lots of choices when you have a ketch.
From our experience the mizzen is little use when hard on the wind. It comes into its own off the wind. We have just had a fully battened mizzen made with more roach. This has added to extra sail area as well. We have also had a new mizzen staysail made. Great with wond on the beam for extra lightwind performance. We don't fly our mizzen staysail with the mizzen up as we sheet our mizzen staysail to the end of the mizzen boom. Our mizzen staysail is the same size as the mainsail so probably larger than most.
In F6/7 the staysail and mizzen is our favourite set up. No need for a mainsail and great performance. Not having the main up above the cockpit is nice. Good visiblity to the jib forward can be a benifit in stronger wind conditions.
Friends have the same boat as ours but they are rigged as a sloop. They go better up wind with their larger main and genoa but off the wind we are quicker. Hope this helps
 
Been a while since I sailed a ketch but used to sail them pretty frequently when I was a lad. I don't think there is a hard and fast rule as they vary so much. With some dropping the main is a good way of reefing but it's often the case that dropping the mizzen doesn't actually affect the balance too much in higher winds or can even help it. Suck it and see would be my guess.
 
LadyInBed said:
That's the beauty of a ketch, lots of options to play with.
I can't say that I've ever looked for a book, I just play it by feel for what sail combo is working well.
Click to expand...

LadyInBed.....is that a Countess 33 you have there? I have the same boat!
 
We had a ketch we didn't use the mizzen upwind but did reaching. We had a Hydrovane so you have to balance the sails so there is no lee or weather helm. In strong winds when reaching we balanced the sails with a partly furled genoa and full mizzen, if the wind and gusts got up over 35 knots we further furled the genoa and put one reef in the mizzen. We couldn't use a staysail beuse we had a wind generator on the mizzen mast but they are brilliant for adding speed in lighter winds. We didn't carry a trysail because we knew the partly furled genoa and refed mizzen works well as we found over Biscay in 35 knots gusting 50 knots. I suspect with two masts a trysail may not be as effective as one mast because of the mizzen drag, but as you have one it's worth trying, but it will only work in heavy weather.
 
One of the joys of a two masted boat - which I miss - is the ability to use the mizzen to swing the stern of the boat exactly where you want it.
For example, if backing out of a marina berth with a strong wind on the beam, there's a danger of the bow blowing off away from the direction you wish to go. Hoist the mizzen and pull it to weather and the stern will always fall away first.
Also, if you happen to have a yawl rather than a ketch, you can make it sail backwards - which is not often useful but doesn't half attract attention.
 
All sounds fun! I'm sure I can manage to make anything sail backwards, and possibly upside down!
 
We sailed a small ketch for 30 years and like oldvarnish we miss many aspects of the boat. Lying nicely to anchor under reefed mizzen is one, and certainly the reversing out of marina berths always attracted attention as the stern swings exactly where you want. Under sail, I'm sure different ketches behave differently ... you could have a look at Eric Tabarly's book, Practical Yacht Handling with a few pages on handling his ketch Pen Duick V1 which needed the mizzen upwind as well. Our ketch sailed well under genoa and mizzen upwind and reaching in a blow. Because of this I never fitted lazy jacks or full length battens to the main because I was then able to get the main down without going up wind at all. Only a small main, 200sq ft., but could dowse it even on a dead run. I very rarely sailed with any rolls in the genoa because of this. As someone else has said the equivalent sloop will surely point a bit higher but get the mizzen staysail up on a nice reach and you'll fly. The mizzen mast and rigging makes the cockpit a most secure place in really heavy seas and is of course brilliant for attaching radar and suchlike. Phil
 
Tabarly book sounds good.....and wasn't Moitessier's Joshua a ketch too?

Any simple diagrams somewhere of how to rig mizzen staysail.....or I could just make it up from first principles��
 
Tim O said:
Tabarly book sounds good.....and wasn't Moitessier's Joshua a ketch too?

Any simple diagrams somewhere of how to rig mizzen staysail.....or I could just make it up from first principles��
Click to expand...

Our mizzen staysail is hoisted on the mizzen mast with an attachment at the base of the main mast to secure the tack. Sheet to toerail block and back to winch in cockpit or in our case use the mizzen boom with a block back to cockpit winch.
 
I sailed a 38ft ketch for 7 years full time.

The thing I liked was the ability to drop the main and still have a balanced boat. In heavy weather. I had a roller furler genoa and would roll that up as wind increased after dropping the main..

The mizzen was the first sail up and the last down.
 
geem said:
Our mizzen staysail is hoisted on the mizzen mast with an attachment at the base of the main mast to secure the tack. Sheet to toerail block and back to winch in cockpit or in our case use the mizzen boom with a block back to cockpit winch.
Click to expand...

That probably accounts for the mysterious blocks on short strops from stanchion bases either side and aft of cockpit.....there's no toerail on my boat
 
TQA said:
I sailed a 38ft ketch for 7 years full time.

The thing I liked was the ability to drop the main and still have a balanced boat. In heavy weather. I had a roller furler genoa and would roll that up as wind increased after dropping the main..

The mizzen was the first sail up and the last down.
Click to expand...

Very useful.....that had been my thinking in terms of order of raising sail!
 
Just remembered ... make sure your mizzen is adequately backstayed for the staysail . I had running backstays on my mizzen. That might be what your blocks aft of the cockpit are for ?
 
Like this!


The details depend greatly on your boat, there are no general ketch rules, as the rigs and boats are very different - with two masts there is a huge amount of variables. In the above shown Oyster 55, the mizzen staysail goes on an eye at the forward corner of the deck salon roof. I feel there should actually be a strop rather than the sail attached directly there - as you can see it's not at the top of the mast and also blocking the helmsmans view for pretty much half the horizon. I think this was only the second time that sail was flown, having spent far too much time being lost in someones garage.

Play with yours and figure out what works best! :)
 
A ketch is a beautiful thing and gives you plenty to tweak. I've never had one but have sailed my friend's MacWester Wight and crewed a Countess 33 with all the sails you can have! The mizzen on the Countess is relatively small and doesn't produce much power but the MacWester one is a good size although the main is smaller. We once raced the two from Arglas to Peel IoM and the MacWester won although I cheated by setting out while the Countess crew were having breakfast in a café. We watched the Countess with its enormous black cruising chute gradually catching up with us but we were there comfortably before them.
 
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