Seagull 40 plus

[Wansworth]

What would be the equivalent in a modern outboard power wise,thqnks

 

[ShinyShoe]

40+ was sold with a claim of 4HP IIRC, but in reality it put out about 1HP in modern horses

 

[VicS]

From the "Saving Old Seagulls" website:

Horse Powers

There has been a lot of myth and nonsense surrounding the power output of the British Seagull. There were, in the classic range, two power units, a 64cc and a 102cc (the original 102 cc motor of the 1930's existed alongside the later Century and Silver Century 102cc units.)

By fitting a variety of different gearboxes a range of power outputs were obtained. They classified them as follows.

Square block models.

Forty minus :- 1 to 1.5 hp, later as 1 to 2 hp, or later still, (before being called the 45), just 2hp.

Forty Plus (direct drive):- 1.5 to 2.5 hp, later as 2 to 3 hp

Forty Plus, Clutch Drive:- 3hp

The Century:- 4hp ( Villiers carb.)

Silver Century, :- 3 to 4.5hp (Amal carbed version of the Century.)

Century Plus, clutch drive 4.5hp.

Silver Century Plus, clutch drive, 4 to 5.5, later 5 hp.

When tested none of these motors gave the rated output, indeed they struggled to achieve more than 1, (yes ONE), horse power!

 

[Leighb]

In spite of the low power output they had good "pushing power" Relatively large diameter slow revving propellors made them very effective, but not that fast.

We used to have tender races across the river against a friend who had a 2hp Yamaha 2stroke and we usually won, but not by much.

 

[Wansworth]

For a transit of the Brittany Canal I fitted a Seagull 40 plus and it did alright making it to La Corona where it gasped its last..... something like a coil gave out......I gave it to a fisherman who still has it working a.Anyway it pushed my Commando Class motor sailer along so I was thinking it would or it equivalent modern ob push my Vega. Thanks fro the info

 

[JumbleDuck]

My Seagull 40D pushed my last boat (21' fin keel Westerly) just as well as the 4hp Yamaha with which I, for a while, replaced it.

 

[Tranona]

Seagull Silver Century Plus or a lter 110 with reverse gear will do the job. Long shaft. Modern 5 or 6hp would also do it. Neither however will give more than about 4 knots in flat water. For serious motoring you need the inboard.

 

[Wansworth]

Due to the circumstances of my boat ownership and dire lack of knowledge about engines and ancillary equipment I am of mind to ,if the engine gives out, to go fro an ob and get rid of the whole inboard set up.Power could be produced using solar or wind and my boating would ve so much easier.The ob will get me to and from the yard and thru the moorings thence I would sail or anchor as time is not a problem.In my mind from previous experience in an engine less boat drifting near rocks and stuff with no wind is the biggest fear but with an anchor and warp or wire its possible to hold position till the wind come in.Obviously a good inboard is th3 best but as I use the boat so little for the moment its suffering under use and throwing up problems that could be expensive to fix.

 

[prv]

it would or it equivalent modern ob push my Vega.

The modern equivalent for pushing yachts is anything with a long (or extra-long) shaft and a lower-pitch prop, often known as "sail drive" or something similar (and not to be confused with the saildrive leg used on some inboards!). The different prop pitch gives better "gearing" for shoving a relatively heavy yacht, versus whizzing a small planing boat along.

Not convinced it's sensible to whip out a working inboard, but if you do (or if the inboard does die permanently) then a saildrive outboard will do what you're expecting of it.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

This subject has been debated here many times. The reality (remembering I used to work for Seagull, if that means anything) is that for that size of boat an outboard is not an effective auxiliary, only of limited use. It is difficult to mount and operate on the transom, comes out of the water in any seaway, noisy and lacking in power in anything other than benign conditions. That is why such boats were fitted with inboards. one thing in its favour though (particularly if a Seagull), is that they are cheap, but have no other use than an emergency auxiliary. So best to look after your inboard. Agree infrequent use is not ideal, but basic maintenance and running hard when you do use it gives it the best chance.

 

[Bodach na mara]

With a Seagull 102 long-shaft, side-mounted on my old six-metre, I got around 4 knots in calm water and managed 50 - 55 minutes on a tank of fuel. I once motored all the way from Ardlamont buoy to Cardwell Bay (about 28 miles) in a calm following a strong wind. (I had just got reefed down when the wind went completely leaving me with lumpy sea.) One one occasion, it pushed me into a force 5 in "sheltered" water "to leeward of a point but in difracted swell. at 3 knots to reach a harbour.

My other experience of using an outboard as auxiliary power was when the gearbox on my Commando (same type of boat as Wansworth in post #5) seized and I had to tow using a Force 3 outboard mounted in the tender. From ahead I got around 4 knots and with the tender alongside, 3 knots. Again, this was in calm conditions.

So a Seagull may lack horses, but it can pull.

 

[JumbleDuck]

This subject has been debated here many times. The reality (remembering I used to work for Seagull, if that means anything) is that for that size of boat an outboard is not an effective auxiliary, only of limited use. It is difficult to mount and operate on the transom, comes out of the water in any seaway, noisy and lacking in power in anything other than benign conditions. That is why such boats were fitted with inboards. one thing in its favour though (particularly if a Seagull), is that they are cheap, but have no other use than an emergency auxiliary.

I think you are being unduly harsh. For traditional auxiliary use - "emergency" is a bit strong, an outboard is fine, as it will push a boat perfectly well in calm conditions or in sheltered waters, like a harbour. In fact it's better than an inboard in some ways: you can angle it to eliminate propwalk, you can turn it to give quite spectacular handling and it's very, very much cheaper.

On the downside, of course, you can't use it as easily in waves or for "motorsailing", so if one is the sort of person who needs hull speed on tap the instant anything other than an easy beam reach would be required, an inboard's the thing.

 

[Tranona]

Harshness depends on your expectations. Not having a reliable auxiliary with enough power to achieve hull speed seriously limits cruising capability and an outboard on a Vega would be in the limited category. However, fine on smaller boats where an inboard is not practical and an outboard enhances capability. The borderline is somewhere around 23/4' and about 1.5 tons displacement - as a generalisation.

 

[prv]

Harshness depends on your expectations. Not having a reliable auxiliary with enough power to achieve hull speed seriously limits cruising capability

Read post #8 - the OP is quite happy with very limited cruising capability. As you say, it depends on your expectations - his are low.

Pete

 

[JumbleDuck]

Harshness depends on your expectations. Not having a reliable auxiliary with enough power to achieve hull speed seriously limits cruising capability and an outboard on a Vega would be in the limited category.

That's making rather a lot of assumptions about the sort of cruising people do. I have a reliable auxiliary which does not manage hull speeds, but I don't find that it seriously limits my cruising capability, because I don't expect to be careering around the place at hull speed all the time. Those who do would probably be better buying a motor boat in the first place.

 

[jwilson]

In the 1960s I used a (then new) 40+ to power first a 17 ft centreboard mini-cruiser and then a 19 ft bilge-keeler. Both made about 3-4 knots in most light to moderate conditions. I then got a very ancient Seagull Century which made little difference to speed, but shoved better against a bit of sea. It also had a clutch, which was not actually that much of a benefit as both my Seagulls always started first pull very time. Then on same 19-foot bilge-keeler put on a modern 4 hp two-stroke, which proved faster in calm but did not do as well as the Century if it was rough. It was also much more temperamental. Fortunately someone (not me) dropped it in the sea, and the agent declared it a write-off. In comparison my by then well-used 40+ spent two tides underwater (my fault), and after very thorough cleaning started first pull as usual. I kept it for years after that.

The Seagulls are though environmentally pretty horrible. Both mine ran on 10:1 mix of cheapest petrol and cheapest straight SAE30 oil. I wouldn't want to use one in a modern crowded marina, especially when you tickle the carb till it floods for a cold start.

 

[JumbleDuck]

The Seagulls are though environmentally pretty horrible. Both mine ran on 10:1 mix of cheapest petrol and cheapest straight SAE30 oil. I wouldn't want to use one in a modern crowded marina, especially when you tickle the carb till it floods for a cold start.

Convert to 25:1, use biodegradable oil and I don't think the Seagull owner need feel too bad, particularly next to a diesel owner belching out particulates. Anyway, it's nowadays the Done Thing to flush your sea toilet in a marina, which is, or used to be, the pinnacle of anti social behaviour.