Adhesive to stick foam backed vinyl.

tjbrace

tjbrace

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My saloon side lockers have foam backed vinyl stuck to the hull and side deck (underside). The vinyl has partially detached and I have to glue it back. I have tried pva but it is still liquid after 3 days, just won't dry. Reluctant to use solvent based (evostick) in case of explosion. Any recommendations?
Would a hot glue gun be an option?
 
The stuff to use is an aerosol canned product which is made specially for this purpose. ASAP stock it for gluing foam backed sound insulation. I have used it for headlining with some success. I need to do it again in another place but the problem is that it is in the center of a panel which is concave, has anyone any ideas how to cut into the lining panel, would a careful cross cut work and give you enough room to spray the adhesive in and get a reasonable looking rejoin line in the vinyl.

Regards
David MH
 
tjbrace said:
My saloon side lockers have foam backed vinyl stuck to the hull and side deck (underside). The vinyl has partially detached and I have to glue it back. I have tried pva but it is still liquid after 3 days, just won't dry. Reluctant to use solvent based (evostick) in case of explosion. Any recommendations?
Would a hot glue gun be an option?
Click to expand...

On grp Hawke house recommend a contact adhesive on the GRP and a spray adhesive on the foam backing

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives/adhesives/saf111-1-litre.html

and

http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/adhesives/adhesives/trade-tack.html

I imagine the spray would be the better choice for reattaching the vinyl to the foam

Both of course are solvent based and appropriate precautions would be necessary.

If fear that by trying PVA ( you did use polyvinyl acetate adhesive not polyvinyl alcohol mould release I hope ) you may have burnt your bridges and will simply have to wait for it to dry.
 
PVA adhesive should come off with some water, or wait for a few warm days to dry it. There should be instructions on the tin about cleaning up. I doubt you'll be satisfied with a join in the fabric, it would be better and quite possibly quicker and easier to remove the whole sheet and then re-glue the whole thing. I've so often spent ages trying to patch things and then watched someone else do the whole thing in a fraction of the time!

Rob.
 
It usually means that the foam is disintegrating when this happens, you should go into reattaching the vinyl aware of what you may uncover... don't ask me how I know...
 
tjbrace said:
My saloon side lockers have foam backed vinyl stuck to the hull and side deck (underside). The vinyl has partially detached and I have to glue it back. I have tried pva but it is still liquid after 3 days, just won't dry. Reluctant to use solvent based (evostick) in case of explosion. Any recommendations?
Click to expand...

Hawke House will sell you a 3M spray glue which works wonders. Get the professional quality face mask too, though.

The bad news is that it probably won't work. Foam backed vinyl generally starts falling off because the foam is disintegrating ... that's why all Westerlies do the "bedouin tent" thing at 25 years old.
 
Agreed, the integrity of the foam is likely to be suspect. There are longer lasting foams now availablr (so I'm told) but identifying them is an expert task! I well remember a PBO article about thus. The headlining was taken down, the coachroof scraped clean as was the vinyl. I particularly liked the description of the process of scraping foam off the vinyl, "like a prehistoric caveman scraping a hide". New closed cell foam from a roll was then glued to the ply and recovered with the (now foam free) vinyl. The only drawback acording to all the suppliers' sites I've researched is that only open cell foam is available in a fire retardant form and this is not the most long lasting.

If anyone is expert on foams, then now would be a good time to give us all gospel and verse. I've also spent time wandering around DIYsyores looking at insulation products but they tend not to give any information on their labels as to what they are made from or their fire rating. Pity, as that would be a quick and convenient way to source material.

Rob.
 
rob2 said:
Agreed, the integrity of the foam is likely to be suspect. There are longer lasting foams now availablr (so I'm told) but identifying them is an expert task! I well remember a PBO article about thus. The headlining was taken down, the coachroof scraped clean as was the vinyl. I particularly liked the description of the process of scraping foam off the vinyl, "like a prehistoric caveman scraping a hide". New closed cell foam from a roll was then glued to the ply and recovered with the (now foam free) vinyl. The only drawback acording to all the suppliers' sites I've researched is that only open cell foam is available in a fire retardant form and this is not the most long lasting.

If anyone is expert on foams, then now would be a good time to give us all gospel and verse. I've also spent time wandering around DIYsyores looking at insulation products but they tend not to give any information on their labels as to what they are made from or their fire rating. Pity, as that would be a quick and convenient way to source material.

Rob.
Click to expand...

As an experienced Westerly owner - I know a thing or 2 about this!
1. Scape off the old foam
2. replace it with new white - much firmer foam, From Hawke house) clean up the old vinyl which will be perfectly usable still.
3. Glue - I initially used a contact adhesive supplied by Hawke House - but the heat of the Med soon turned it into a bedouin tent again. So now I use Sticks like Shit - much less messy - much easier to put up - you can slide the foam into place on the hull, then spread the glue on the foam (well spread out) then offer up the Vinyl to the area - firmly press into place - and you have a heat proof repair.

I have gradually done the whole boat like this and it has been very successful.
 
The main problem is that the plasticisers in the vinyl can migrate and break down the adhesive over time. The spread-on one sold by Hawke House was formulated for them and the manufacturers won't sell direct - I've tried. Having phoned lots of manufacturers, including 3m, no-one else will guarantee a solvent product to last, particularly in hot sun and no water based around for attaching to grp. Hawke House also do single and double sided self adhesive foam but again they doubt it would stand up to Med temperatures.

Some years ago, I bought some cream ribbed material with self adhesive backing from Hawke House (similar to van lining), for lining lockers. That has stuck like the proverbial to a blanket, even on the hull interior. No sign of it coming loose after 11 or 12 years.
 
If you do decide to use a solvent base glue we have about 2litres of saf111 left in a 5 l can from Hawkehouse. We're in Wivenhoe and its yours for a £ 10 donation to the RNLI. We. Did the forecabin last winter with no dramas, just made sure it was well ventilated and wore a suitable mask.
 
The company that supplied the sound proofing and vinyl that we used on our sons land Rover recommended that normal cheap builders tube Silicon is used. This is to avoid the plasticisers reacting with the insulation foam and the foam on the vinyl.

This gives the bonus of no nasty fumes and time to position the materials easily because it can be moved/slide or even pulled off to reposition.
The best bit for me as Bank of Dad was paying (and doing the job) was the cheap cost.
 
It can get quite messy using stick like......... just remember the laws of gravity and avoid doing it on an upside down surface. Ie put it in the vylnl and foam first and offer up to the deck. Have plenty of kitchen paper and a bin near by. BUT nowhere near as messy as impact adhesive.

Good luck!
 
I did a Macwester 27 with van lining from 'Upholstery 123' they sent me the glue as well. It looks very good, easy to use too.
Very messy getting the surface clean, have to use an angle grinder with one of those scrubber things.
The boat is more like home now. No condensation and no mold behind the vinyl.
Capt. RoN
.
 
Chris_Robb said:
.......Glue - I initially used a contact adhesive supplied by Hawke House - but the heat of the Med soon turned it into a bedouin tent again. So now I use Sticks like Shit - much less messy - much easier to put up - you can slide the foam into place on the hull, then spread the glue on the foam (well spread out) then offer up the Vinyl to the area - firmly press into place - and you have a heat proof repair. ..... it has been very successful.
Click to expand...

I have not used the 'Sticks Like Shit' (SLS) on vinyl but I have experience with the contact spray on adhesive and it was a failure. The foam backed lining stuck well using the spray and lasted about 6 months. First the south facing side (marina berth orientation) fell off, then the north side, Scottish marina. I have had good success with SLS on thin veneers used to cover original ply bulkheads with a lot of surface damage. So far the cosmetic repair is robust. The SLS solution was recommended on this forum.
 
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