Steel for high latitudes?

Tim Good

Tim Good

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Do you really need a steel boat for high latitude sailing. I'm talking Northern Norway, Iceland and Greenland in the summer months.

I have read many accounts of people doing it in GRP and wood perfectly successfully but with so many options on the market and the fact I gave not bought the boat yet, should I really be considering steel or will a solidly built GRP be ok.

This isn't a hyperthetical question. I'm looking to buy soon and want to a circumnavigation before heading north and ideally I'd like to use the same boat by which time I'll be very familiar with it.

Let the debate begin.
 
North Norway is ice-free in the summer months, and rare in Iceland. I hear that E Greenland is trickier.
Aluminium seems popular with the high latitude crowd these days, but I've met plenty who have done this trip in GRP.
It depends more on the boat (and the skipper) than on what it's made of, would be my view.
 
It's certainly not necessary. We built a number of steel boats for 'high latitude sailing' in the 1980's and into the 90's but haven't been asked for one since.

Yachts don't have the power or 'heft' to push or smash into ice. You can build them of diamonds, but they still couldn't be an icebreaker.
Steel also doesn't really protect you from 'crushing' as the forces are so immense, but shallow draft (lifting rudder and keel) can enable you to enter shallow water where thick ice can't follow.

But an even better idea is to learn what you're doing and not encounter ice of any significance - a yacht will always loose. Thinking a steel hull gives you any protection could well lull you into a false sense of security.
I think the only yacht to do both the NE and NW passages (ie circumnavigate the North Pole) was an F27 trimaran that could easily be pulled up onto the ice out of harms way.

Aluminium has been the material of choice for many, but principally because it's allowed custom designs and 'interesting' modifications to be done economically. It's also tough for lying along side commercial boats and fishing vessels in places away from 'yacht facilities', especially if it is unpainted. But GRP in the hands of someone capable of sailing to high latitudes is also a winning combination. Eh Bob?

Whatever the material, the more important qualities are reliable systems (that won't catch fire) and insulation and ventilation.
Also deck saloons are a huge boon; what's the point of going somewhere picturesque if the weather forces you to be battened down in some windowless bunker?

The biggest driver to investing in a steel hull is 'fear'.
But sailers who are fearful don't go to high latitudes.
That's why steel is under represented amongst the boats that do go to these places.
 
We bought a steel boat not for high latitudes but on the basis if you sail long and far enough it's only a matter of time before you hit something or something hits you. We got hit twice, once near the bows when at anchor and not on the boat, the paint was chipped. The second time a boat boy in a heavy wooden Pirogue approached us at full speed at 90 degrees to our beam he couldn't get the engine out of gear and hit us. It would have punched a hole in a GRP boat but only chipped the paint. Both chips I repainted.

There are a lot of steel boats in the Pacific if they hit a reef 90% get off. If a GRP boat hits a reef 90% don't. There are still some reefs that are not on the charts, in daylight you can see them at night you can't. I was told this by a Kiwi around the world sailor who we first met in Corsica and subsequently elsewhere including the UK.
 
http://www.bobshepton.co.uk/

Bob Shepton has done the North West passage twice in his GRP Westerly Discus Dodo.

He is an expert though.

I think it looks like an expert can do it in anything. A lesser person like me might spend some more money and go aluminium! My fantasy is an Ovni!!
 
roblpm said:
http://www.bobshepton.co.uk/

Bob Shepton has done the North West passage twice in his GRP Westerly Discus Dodo.

He is an expert though.

I think it looks like an expert can do it in anything. A lesser person like me might spend some more money and go aluminium! My fantasy is an Ovni!!
Click to expand...

Ahh you beat me to it.

I sat next to one of his crew at a sailing dinner recently.

What incredible stories!
 
This has been asked about and debated before. http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-338102.html

I rather imagine that the OP will know this as he was the OP in the previous thread! It's not clear that the passage of time will have changed any of the facts, let alone opinions!

In Norway and Iceland there will be no ice in high summer, and so anything goes. In Svalbard there will be little if any ice left after mid July most summers, and I'd say 50% of boats we saw there were grp. We have a grp boat and never felt a millisecond of worry from ice. Greenland is also on the plan, but we're not looking to change boat beforehand.

Ice map (from Sept 2012) here:
View attachment 39639
 
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Steel is usually the recommended material, though aluminium is increasingly popular. The main reason is because metal is resistant to abrasion from ice in the water; the ice will take the paint off steel but it will dent rather than abrading. I'm not talking about ice-breaking; as TimBennett says, a yacht isn't going to be capable of ice breaking. But Arctic and Antarctic waters are often full of small icy rubble (brash), which is difficult to avoid, and which will abrade wood or GRP. Wood can (and often is) protected by sacrificial planking at the bow, but GRP is not so easy to protect in that way.

As others have noted, Iceland and Northern Norway will probably be ice-free in summer anyway. Eastern Greenland is more problematic, and there will always be some floating ice derived from the fast-flowing glaciers that calve into the sea.
 
jdc said:
This has been asked about and debated before. http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-338102.html

In Norway and Iceland there will be no ice in high summer, and so anything goes. In Svalbard there will be little if any ice left after mid July most summers, and I'd say 50% of boats we saw there were grp. We have a grp boat and never felt a millisecond of worry from ice.

Ice map (from Sept 2012) here:
View attachment 39639
Click to expand...


One caveat; in Svalbard there certainly will be floating ice in the inner ends of fjords, where glaciers calve into the sea. Similarly on the east coast of Greenland.
 
jwilson said:
Or look at this one http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/boats/p31013/p31013.htm
Click to expand...

There's a perfect example of why you would need to really research any potential steel boat purchase.

It would be easy to get carried away again with 'intended for arctic service', etc and not look at the detail.

She's a 39 foot boat built with a 5mm hull and 4mm decks, deck saloon, cockpit and roll over bar. That's a lot of steel and a lot of it quite high up.

She's a centre boarder with only a 24% ballast ratio - That's not a lot!

Luckily the designers, Van de Stadt is still in business so you would be able to pay them to let you have the stability calculations in her 'as now' condition, including the later added, full wood interior and cruising load.

Then you would have to prove to yourself that the interior of the centreboard case was blasted to white metal and adequately painted when built, and that there is provision to allow a full inspection and re-coating now and in the future.

And on it goes.
 
TimBennet said:
There's a perfect example of why you would need to really research any potential steel boat purchase.

It would be easy to get carried away again with 'intended for arctic service', etc and not look at the detail.

She's a 39 foot boat built with a 5mm hull and 4mm decks, deck saloon, cockpit and roll over bar. That's a lot of steel and a lot of it quite high up.

She's a centre boarder with only a 24% ballast ratio - That's not a lot!

Luckily the designers, Van de Stadt is still in business so you would be able to pay them to let you have the stability calculations in her 'as now' condition, including the later added, full wood interior and cruising load.

Then you would have to prove to yourself that the interior of the centreboard case was blasted to white metal and adequately painted when built, and that there is provision to allow a full inspection and re-coating now and in the future.

And on it goes.
Click to expand...

Not sure if your a surveyor Tim but your doing a good job of selling yourself! Be careful else I might collar you into viewing a boat for me!
 
northcave said:
Do you really need a steel boat for high latitude sailing. I'm talking Northern Norway, Iceland and Greenland in the summer months.

I have read many accounts of people doing it in GRP and wood perfectly successfully but with so many options on the market and the fact I gave not bought the boat yet, should I really be considering steel or will a solidly built GRP be ok.

This isn't a hyperthetical question. I'm looking to buy soon and want to a circumnavigation before heading north and ideally I'd like to use the same boat by which time I'll be very familiar with it.

Let the debate begin.
Click to expand...

http://www.morganscloud.com/2013/10/10/adventure-40-an-overview/
 
northcave said:
Do you really need a steel boat for high latitude sailing. I'm talking Northern Norway, Iceland and Greenland in the summer months.

I have read many accounts of people doing it in GRP and wood perfectly successfully but with so many options on the market and the fact I gave not bought the boat yet, should I really be considering steel or will a solidly built GRP be ok.

This isn't a hyperthetical question. I'm looking to buy soon and want to a circumnavigation before heading north and ideally I'd like to use the same boat by which time I'll be very familiar with it.

Let the debate begin.
Click to expand...

My material of choice would be Strongall. Thick aluminium with zinc galvanic treatment.

Here is the personal boat of architect J-P Brouns :

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/1xeccbr4k393hv1/Globe Troller 40 - presentation.pdf

And also Michel Joubert's personal boat :

http://www.joubertnivelt-design.com/fiche-bateau/items/37.html
 
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