Adivce on negotiating a price for a used boat

[Her indoors]

Hello,

I posted last night asking for advice on buying a boat, but I can’t find it.

I’ll try again hopefully get right this time.

Any advice on negotiation would be helpful.

Main points would be:

Is it better to have cash in place? Would this be a bargaining tool?

What percentage of the asking price is realistic to deduct for a first offer?

Any other advice would be great.

Thanks

 

[RupertW]

We've always done it in a similar way to the way we'd buy a house.

First decide if we want the boat (obviously)

Check what they are normally advertised for and if possible, what they actually go for.

Depending on the condition of the boat decide how much you think it is worth compared to the normal price for that model/year

Offer a lot less (30%?) and see what happens

Bargain up to the point that you have previously decided is your limit

Get your survey done, and don't drop your offer unless something appears that is a real surprise. E.g. if the boat is 30 years old then a reasonable person would expect some osmosis, old wiring, stays etc., but if you found out the keelbolts were bent then you would need to price up getting them fixed.

Always be willing to walk away, there will be another boat and the money you save will help with the things that you didn't realise were worn or broken.

 

[Tranona]

Suggest you buy the little book on buying and selling secondhand boats published by the RYA. This goes through the process in detail and gives you a check list when looking and negotiating.

Cash per se should not make any difference to your bargaining position as you have to pay the seller in cash anyway. However, you may need to borrow the money - or some of it - so having this in place beforehand removes that as an obstacle. A seller, and particularly if you are dealing through a broker will want to know beforehand that you have the finance in place, because once you sign the contract you are committed unless for example the survey throws up something that is not resolvable.

There is no set amount of reduction to offer. As already suggested you need to do your homework and find out what similar boats are offered at and perhaps what they change hands for. Popular boats in good condition that are priced to sell usually go for not much less than asking price, but on older boats where condition varies widely and those perhaps less popular, selling prices can be very different from asking prices. The final agreed price can also depend on how desperate the seller is, and often the survey shows up undeclared faults that are expensive to fix in relation to the value of the boat, so the final negotiated price may well be much lower than the original asking price.

As a buyer, you have to decide on a budget and the features you want in the boat. Almost all new purchases require money spent on them, if only for a simple thing like getting it delivered to where you want it. So the price to aim for is one that enables you to get what you want, where you want it, in the best condition you can. This may mean that you have to revise your expectations as you go along.

Once you have focused down on particular designs it is well worth contacting owners associations to find out more about the boat, and hopefully talk to people who already own one.

Good luck with the hunt!

 

[Biggles Wader]

You need to be more specific.What type of boat,age range,size and location.Its definitely a buyers market especially at this time of year.If you know anyone with a boat it will beworth taking them along with you to view.They will stop the rose tinted specs taking over.

 

[GrahamM376]

Brokers can access prices boats have sold for as opposed to asking prices and will have a good idea what the owner is likely to accept. You need to look at several boats of the model you are interested in to judge whether the price is reasonable, bearing in mind the level of equipment and condition which varies. Some owners price way too high whereas others price to sell at a realistic figure so there's no rule of thumb about what percentage to knock off. If this is your first boat, it would be madness to buy without having a survey and be guided by the surveyors thoughts on value.

 

[jwilson]

A couple of points: cash is not a bargaining point, as few sellers accept camels/goats/daughters as payment. Seriously though, best to have funds in place, or know that you can quickly get a personal loan or source other funds if required. As brokers we actually refuse to take cash or cheques, and only accept bank transfers. On smaller boats however private sellers sometimes like cash.

Have a good look at the boat before trying to negotiate a price - and then make an offer "subject to survey". If the survey finds significant things wrong that you DID NOT KNOW ABOUT then you can seek to renegotiate the price, but you can't do that if the survey picks up points you already knew about - scratches on the hull, green frayed ropes, worn bunk cushions etc.

There is a brief summary of the buying process via a broker on our website at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/faq.htm, but as others have said, for full information buy the RYA book on buying a boat. Everything in the book is correct except their advice only to use an ABYA/YBDSA broker - as a non ABYA/YBDSA broker I would point out that most of the brokers that have caused problems in the last few years (in at least one case losing buyers deposit money) have been ABYA/YBDSA members.

 

[laika]

The book Tranona suggested is a good starting point.

Good luck with finding out how much boats actually sell for. When I was in your position I couldn't get brokers to tell me how much they had sold boats for, presumably because they (understandably) don't want buyers to go offering even lower on similar ones. As has been said, it depends on the type of boat and on how much the seller needs to sell. Try offering 30% less on a Hallberg Rassy and the broker might stop returning your calls. Location also counts: if a boat is in the Solent it will likely go for more simply because there are more potential buyers willing to travel there to look at it and it's not far from where they intend to keep it.

You will probably get it wrong first time. A lot of the advice I got (from very knowledgeable and experienced people) was undoubtedly right for the people who gave it to me but not necessarily for me. Second time around you know what you are looking for so err on the side of small and well within budget first time round and on no account buy a "project boat" that you think you can do up to your specs. Unless you absolutely know what you're doing..

 

[jwilson]

.... on no account buy a "project boat" that you think you can do up to your specs. Unless you absolutely know what you're doing..

Agree 100% - once you have an idea of the type of boat you want, pay the money and buy the very best one around. Unless you really like fixing things. There's plenty of 'fixing things' to do even on a near-new boat, on a cheap project boat it can be massive, and end up costing more in the end than buying one that someone else has already fixed.

 

[FullCircle]

Agree 100% - once you have an idea of the type of boat you want, pay the money and buy the very best one around. Unless you really like fixing things. There's plenty of 'fixing things' to do even on a near-new boat, on a cheap project boat it can be massive, and end up costing more in the end than buying one that someone else has already fixed.

Very very very true.

Only in the marine project environment can you have a sharp intake of breath that still manages to leave you breathless. Extraordinary.

 

[knuterikt]

Main points would be:

Is it better to have cash in place? Would this be a bargaining tool?

Putting my self in a sellers place.
If I got two similar bids..
- One where financing is OK
- Second with reservation about financing

Who would I sell to?
I think that I in some cases would even be prepared to sell at a lower price to the one with money (in the bank)
If you by cash in place mean - bringing an envelope with cash I don't think that would matter much..

 

[gjgm]

Hello,

I posted last night asking for advice on buying a boat, but I can’t find it.

I’ll try again hopefully get right this time.

Any advice on negotiation would be helpful.

Main points would be:

Is it better to have cash in place? Would this be a bargaining tool?

What percentage of the asking price is realistic to deduct for a first offer?

Any other advice would be great.

Thanks

It doesnt reqally matter what the price is, you just need to decide what the boat is worth to you, and with that ,you have to accept you may not buy it. In reality, if the boat is vastly away from your valuation (% terms), you are probably wasting your time, bcz not many people put something up for sale for £100 if they are only looking for £60.
Dont rush in.. have a really good look over the boat, and make a calculation for what is fair wear and tear (ie I dont mean nice to tart up at someone elses expense), and what is not acceptable (someone else can indeed pay). Remember that the boat belongs to someone else, and your personal valuation is that- no reason he needs to agree at all with you.
So , just be sensible, dont worry about discounts or % (you may think it is a steal at full price), and be business like. No need to be rude or feel nervous. Making an offer is binding (unlike houses) so do your research and read the suggested booklet (or there is a guide on YBW.COM somewhere).
You will also have some priorities. Some people prefer to wait years to find the right boat, or would rather have no boat than pay up to get one they like. Others just want the boat, and couldnt care about the money. Of course, the seller may have all sorts of agendas too. If you both agree, you trade the boat. Just accept that you are not "in the driving seat" etc. You both need to work towards a deal if you want it to go through.

 

[ianat182]

Have not bought a boat for many years(29)but your location and intended sailing areas planned will influence your choice, also the availability of a mooring or marina berth. Do also consider the current location of any boat you fancy, you'll either have to transport it to your home location or sail it there, this if any distance, might not be a good idea if your experience in sailing is limited in a yacht not familiar re engine operation etc.

Basics costs do need to be worked out, including:

Cost of visiting and frequency of sailing expected .

Mooring type and location/marina berth and contract terms.

Engine servicing,spares and repairs. (DIY can keep the costs down).

Sail valeting and repairs(nominal sum to accrue each year).

Annual maintenance, to include anti-fouling paint and equipment.

Laying up arrangements, short term ashore costs or the usual 5 months of the winter,you may be paying both the mooring and the time ashore costs.

Purchase the best affordable wet gear for all crew, no need for Round the World stuff just yet. Get adequate and suitable lifejackets,and harnesses if distance sailing overnight or in very rough seas.

Purchase a good sized solid dinghy or inflatable to be your tender, if on a mooring, and include this cost, and any charge for keeping it ashore at a club or yard.
It will of course need oars and an outboard of about 2.5hp( Suzuki 2 strokes are the lightest and very reliable).

Can I recommend 'REEDS SKIPPER'S HANDBOOK' for sail and Power boats.You can buy on Amazon or elsewhere for around £6.50 (RRP£7.99) contains a wealth of Dayskipper information -and it fits nicely in the pocket whilst aboard.

Finally, after getting your Day Skipper, search for an insurance company for your boat; your purchase survey will enable you to get Comprehensive insurance and possibly with a discount. This cost can vary a lot between insurers but initially' Brest to Elbe' will be a likely range for your first ventures, and also depends on the length of boat etc.

These are just things that can make it a worth while venture,few will result in any 'profit' but sailing is about the enjoyment as well as necessary expense.

Welcome to the Forum - we don't bite!


ianat182

 

[maxi77]

The fundamentals are first to have a budget and stick to it, work out what any particular boat is worth to you taking account of the money you will have to spend to get it to the standard you need, we always tended to offer our best price on a take it or leave it basis and always got the boat we wanted at the price we wanted.

 

[bernie_ni]

I am reading this thread with interest, as am looking to purchase 28 - 30 ft early next year, I hope.(absolute max 20k)

Making an offer is binding (unlike houses) ; gigm , is this really the case? though I assume an offer should also be made 'subject to contract?
I dont mind a bit of haggling..... but offering 30% below the asking price? There is a forumite here selling his Fulmar, now down to 19K. That means - I would offer about 13 or 14k ??
I want to add that I am not personally looking for a Westerly Fulmar - but i suppose there is no harm done if you make a ridiculous low offer?

 

[maxi77]

I am reading this thread with interest, as am looking to purchase 28 - 30 ft early next year, I hope.(absolute max 20k)

Making an offer is binding (unlike houses) ; gigm , is this really the case? though I assume an offer should also be made 'subject to contract?
I dont mind a bit of haggling..... but offering 30% below the asking price? There is a forumite here selling his Fulmar, now down to 19K. That means - I would offer about 13 or 14k ??
I want to add that I am not personally looking for a Westerly Fulmar - but i suppose there is no harm done if you make a ridiculous low offer?

How much you offer should be related to the value of the boat to you, 30% down may be right for you and in the end the seller may be prepared to accept money in the [pocket counts. Each potential purchase needs to be measured against the market, that does mean a lot of looking and being in the eyes of many sellers a tire kicker, it is your money you are spending so carry on. I would suggest that offering a low price well below what you are really prepared to pay is not going to be helpful,

 

[PaulMcC]

I bought earlier this year. The boats was in good condition and my initial offer was 30% under asking price based on information from this forum that the boat would be worth about 20% under.
Ended up after negotiation with an offer of 20% under asking subject to survey and then knocked about 5% off due to odds and ends the survey showed up so paid 25% under (or really 20% under and 5% towards fixing things I hadn't noticed).

In hindsight I would have sorted out a surveyor earlier and got his advice about what that type of boat was selling for in time to use that info to help gauge my first offer.

 

[Skylark]

I've just bought a new boat and I managed to trade my old one as part exchange so didn't get this grief.

I did try to sell mine separately but impatience got the better of me.

Just to add a different perspective to this thread. My old boat was in very good condition and was 11 years old. I had the standing rigging replaced and the time-expired gas hoses prior to sale. I did this because I didn't want someone making a silly offer claiming that work needed to be done.

I advertised it at a "fair" price.

I didn't add an extra 20% to allow for negotiation.

Is the leisure boat sale business still operating in the Dark Ages?

Why offer, say, £80k for a boat for sale at £100k. If it's worth £100k, why not buy it.

The whole "offer less process" seems rather rude, IMHO.

I last sold a boat about 8 years ago. One guy made me an offer by saying "I've only got £25k to spend". My response was "then you won't be buying my boat, goodbye". I'm always happy to eat humble pie but out of preference I like to stand on principle.

Rant over, thank you.

 

[Tranona]

I am reading this thread with interest, as am looking to purchase 28 - 30 ft early next year, I hope.(absolute max 20k)

Making an offer is binding (unlike houses) ; gigm , is this really the case? though I assume an offer should also be made 'subject to contract?

It is just like buying any other product and does not rely on a written contract. Once you have made your offer and it has been accepted, you have made the commitment under contract law. However, it is common with a boat to have a written contract which lays out the terms and conditions up to completion, including when re-negotiation of the price. The price agreed in the contract is based on the boat as you have seen it and the description provided by the seller. The price will be subject to a satisfactory survey which normally you would have carried out by a surveyor of your choice.

You should therefore be certain you want to buy the boat and have the money to pay for it before you make the offer.

 

[maxi77]

I've just bought a new boat and I managed to trade my old one as part exchange so didn't get this grief.

I did try to sell mine separately but impatience got the better of me.

Just to add a different perspective to this thread. My old boat was in very good condition and was 11 years old. I had the standing rigging replaced and the time-expired gas hoses prior to sale. I did this because I didn't want someone making a silly offer claiming that work needed to be done.

I advertised it at a "fair" price.

I didn't add an extra 20% to allow for negotiation.

Is the leisure boat sale business still operating in the Dark Ages?

Why offer, say, £80k for a boat for sale at £100k. If it's worth £100k, why not buy it.

The whole "offer less process" seems rather rude, IMHO.

I last sold a boat about 8 years ago. One guy made me an offer by saying "I've only got £25k to spend". My response was "then you won't be buying my boat, goodbye". I'm always happy to eat humble pie but out of preference I like to stand on principle.

Rant over, thank you.

What ever you have to sell is only ever worth what a buyer is prepared to pay, your problem is to find a buyer who agrees with you as to what it is worth. In your case if no one will offer more than 80000 then that is what it is worth.

 

[ffiill]

A couple of points: cash is not a bargaining point, as few sellers accept camels/goats/daughters as payment. Seriously though, best to have funds in place, or know that you can quickly get a personal loan or source other funds if required. As brokers we actually refuse to take cash or cheques, and only accept bank transfers. On smaller boats however private sellers sometimes like cash.

Have a good look at the boat before trying to negotiate a price - and then make an offer "subject to survey". If the survey finds significant things wrong that you DID NOT KNOW ABOUT then you can seek to renegotiate the price, but you can't do that if the survey picks up points you already knew about - scratches on the hull, green frayed ropes, worn bunk cushions etc.

There is a brief summary of the buying process via a broker on our website at http://www.yachtsnet.co.uk/faq.htm, but as others have said, for full information buy the RYA book on buying a boat. Everything in the book is correct except their advice only to use an ABYA/YBDSA broker - as a non ABYA/YBDSA broker I would point out that most of the brokers that have caused problems in the last few years (in at least one case losing buyers deposit money) have been ABYA/YBDSA members.

As a current seller to me cash means that the buyer has money readily available in a bank account such that they could present a cheque the next day.
If its an account where they have to give a months notice or they have to raise a loan etc that to me is not cash so if someone could give me "cash"in those terms I would probably consider doing a deal.
Only recently my son in law lost out selling his flat where the buyer claimed he had a cash deposit wheras it turned out he had to raise extra funds.By the time my son in law found out he had already bought and far bigger and more expensive property and was forced to accept £10,000 less than agreed so that the sale could go through quickly.