What became of bitts, bollards, samson posts?

[biscuit]

I am thinking of swapping my long-keeler, which I keep on a swinging mooring. It has a really useful large horned bitt (bitts?) / samson post between windlass and the bow roller, just right for slipping the loop of the mooring line over, and a few turns of the chain when anchoring to take the strain off the electric anchor winch. None of the more modern cruising designs that I have looked at have anything like this, just a couple of often inadequate looking bow cleats: ok for alongside berthing, but would they really be secure on a mooring when the boat is bucking and snatching in a gale?
When anchoring, Lofrans recommends using a chain stopper, but, especially where there is a bow anchor locker, there is nowhere to put one.
I do a lot of anchoring, so am really interested in what others do.
I could go on about the inadequate bow rollers/ straight stems inspired by the racing fraternity, but....

 

[prv]

I'm in exactly the same position. Old boat had a sturdy Samson post that also held the heel of the bowsprit, new one has a pair of bow cleats and an electric windlass that is so close to the shank of the anchor when stowed that there's no room for a chain stopper or other device to secure the anchor - including holding it home when stowed.

My solution for anchoring loads has been to make a snubber with two legs to go onto both bow cleats, but it's fiddly to rig each time.

Pete

 

[Sandyman]

I'm in exactly the same position.

Pete

So are we. They just don't make em like they used to.

 

[alahol2]

Why not bolt one on...? http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/mooring-bollard

 

[PhillM]

Page 14 of the Davey catalouge has them available. You need to be a trade supplier to buy direct, or get a chandler to order for you but so far everything they have supplied to me has been great. They are not cheap but they are good.

http://www.davey.co.uk/

Edit: The one above from ebay is currently £5.50 and the one from Davey is £130 + chrome plating (unless you want Gun Metal finish) + VAT & delivery. So I'd expect it to come out about £190 all in. As I say not the cheapest, but I guess you get what you pay for.

 

[pmagowan]

I don't understand why Sampson posts are so neglected in modern boats. I have a long keeler and to me it IS the foredeck. So usefull and simple and hopefully will not rip out in a gale.

 

[rob2]

Yeah, half the problem with mounting a samson post is that the deck may not be sufficient to take the strain. I looked at the SS ones and thought they'd be fine with a massive backing pad, but I'd prefer to run a timber up a bulkhead, through the deck and up into the body of the post... On the previous boat I regularly sailed, there was a teak samson post and it played a major role in almost every bit of foredeck work - there was always somewhere to secure to or belay.

Rob.

 

[Kelpie]

Isn't a traditional samson post built into the keel, exactly like a mast would be?
You can't really do that with a modern boat.

 

[pmagowan]

Mine is mounted through the deck onto a solid block that meets timbers tied through to the hull. Seems pretty strong even in my rotty old boat!

 

[Tranona]

I don't understand why Sampson posts are so neglected in modern boats. I have a long keeler and to me it IS the foredeck. So usefull and simple and hopefully will not rip out in a gale.

Simple. Most people who buy new boats have little need for them because they don't use swinging moorings, nor in many cases anchor. So boats are not built in a way that makes a sampson post a sensible fitment. A Bollard is easy to screw onto the deck, but as has been pointed out the deck is not designed to take the load. Cleats near the deck edge can more easily be made strong enough to take the loads and a bridle used if necessary.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Surely the point is that a samson post is an integral part of the boat's framing, supported by deck beams, knees and resting on the keel? And as most GRP boats don't have that kind of framing, they simply aren't an option? Further, they would penetrate the deck of a GRP boat, leading to a potential for leaks.

Of course, you could mount a bollard, bolting through the deck to a substantial backing plate. But it would be no stronger than properly attached mooring cleats. My winch is mounted to a very substantial backing plate, and it is probably as strongly mounted as any possible bollard.

 

[William_H]

As said or at least intimated modern GRP boats tend to have the hull and the deck molding overlap and bolted together at the gunwhale. So bolting a cleat onto the gunwhale near the bow is attaching to possibly the strongest part of the boat. Certainly of the deck. My swing mooring loads are primarily taken by a saddle bolted to the bow half way between the water line and deck. The hull is very thick here. The point was first mounted for winching the boat onto a trailer but is also ideal for attaching a snap shackle on a rope to the mooring. Of course not convenient for anchor rode cleating. good luck olewill

 

[Graham_Wright]

Isn't a traditional samson post built into the keel, exactly like a mast would be?
You can't really do that with a modern boat.

Just like mine. Load spread around the deck but then through bolted to the keel. Forever a worrier, my fear was that if ever I needed a tow, a "proper" samson post would be the best. Cleats can be torn out in rough seas although spreading the load by taking the lines aft and round everything as recommended by the RNLI helps.

 

[dimdav]

Have I got this wrong then?

I have a horned bitt on my foredeck but no forward cleats, when considering a swinging mooring earleir this year I managed to convince myself (through various threads on here) that I'd need to have cleats added to stop the strop from coming off and there wasnt time before marina renewal to getthe work done.

Is it ok to moor on a swinger and rely solely on the bitt to hold both primary and backup mooring lines?

 

[pmagowan]

I moor and anchor off my Sampson post. There is nothing else on the foredeck other than the windlass.

 

[biscuit]

Thanks for all the the responses. Amongst the 30-odd neighboring boats on my moorings, only 5 or 6 have samson post arrangements, so I guess all the others cope ok. I have just got used to the convenience of my present arrangements. I would think some kind of double bridle on the mooring strop would spread the load effectively. Some local boats use 2 strops but often get into a tangle in the circular tidal stream: not all modern boats have 2 bow rollers to accommodate them, either. My mooring strop has a large soft eye spliced in, which is unlikely to come off, but I tie it in with a light line, and cleat the pickup buoy's line round it for good measure.
As to retrofitting a bollard with a massive backing plate, the idea is good, but in practice, (especially where there is an anchor well) few boats have room or access to fit one. Oh well, all boats, it is said, are a compromise. It's the lurking fear of another "100 year" storm which makes one think.