Best 4, 5hp outboard?

[Simonpk]

I'm looking for a 4/5hp outboard for a Hunter Europa & would like opinions as to which is best.

I've just lost 7 minutes of my life having found Dylans video review of said outboards with the PBO. Sat there watching Dylan waiting for the PBO crew, saw the inside of a transit loaded with outboards, watched a couple of guys whizzing around a pond in Katie L, watched a couple of guys pulling some scales attached to the pontoon. 7 minutes later, (did I mention 7 minutes earlier?), the video ends ..... so what was the outcome ? Apparently it was in Junes PBO which I can't get hold of as it's now October.

Has anyone got the results of the test please.

 

[VicS]

I'm looking for a 4/5hp outboard for a Hunter Europa & would like opinions as to which is best.

I've just lost 7 minutes of my life having found Dylans video review of said outboards with the PBO. Sat there watching Dylan waiting for the PBO crew, saw the inside of a transit loaded with outboards, watched a couple of guys whizzing around a pond in Katie L, watched a couple of guys pulling some scales attached to the pontoon. 7 minutes later, (did I mention 7 minutes earlier?), the video ends ..... so what was the outcome ? Apparently it was in Junes PBO which I can't get hold of as it's now October.

Has anyone got the results of the test please.

Dylan bough a Tohatsu!

Reprint or PDF of PBO article available from the copy shop if you think its worth £6.95

Apparently was in the "Summer" issue, rather than the normal June issue

http://marinedirectory.ybw.com/reprints/results1.jsp

 

[dylanwinter]

in my defense

I'm looking for a 4/5hp outboard for a Hunter Europa & would like opinions as to which is best.

I've just lost 7 minutes of my life having found Dylans video review of said outboards with the PBO. Sat there watching Dylan waiting for the PBO crew, saw the inside of a transit loaded with outboards, watched a couple of guys whizzing around a pond in Katie L, watched a couple of guys pulling some scales attached to the pontoon. 7 minutes later, (did I mention 7 minutes earlier?), the video ends ..... so what was the outcome ? Apparently it was in Junes PBO which I can't get hold of as it's now October.

Has anyone got the results of the test please.

apologies for wasting your seven minutes

checkis in the post to cover your time

I was not allowed to give the results

however..... I bought a Tohatsu

Dylan

 

[Simonpk]

Thanks Dylan, no need to worry I also lost 90 minutes watching the footie. My thoughts were with the Tohatsu, also Hidea seem to be the new kids on the block, but seems as though they may not last as long.

 

[Seajet]

SimonPK,

be very aware of engine weight with your Europa.

Dylan W. won't like this as he thinks all 2-strokes are akin to original Seagull engines and spew oil, but 'modern' 2 -strokes - say early 1980's on - are not guilty, very lean mixtures and efficient fuel burning.

Every fibre in my body screams 'avoid a heavy 4 stroke, go for a secondhand 2 stroke if available'.

My boat is by the same designer as the Europa, Oliver Lee ( BTW if you look in the 'community' section in the blue banner at the top of this page there is a site dedicated to him, but it could do with more detail ) - the A22 has the outboard in a well which is better for handling the engine, weight distribution etc but I still find my Mariner 5hp 2-stroke ideal, as it's light enough to lift.

She went across the Channel in calms quite happily with a Yamaha 4hp 2 stroke.

With that, and the Mariner 5 I get 2.5 hours at near max throttle per gallon and if there's a breath of wind can motorsail across the Channel at surprising speeds, the Europa will be similar.

The point is, the Europa, 701 etc were earlier Lee designs with narrower transoms less able to take weight aft, but had transom mounted engines with a lot more unwanted leverage.

A modern 4-5 hp 4 stroke on the back end of a Europa would be a disaster trim wise, and one might have to think about cockpit drains backflooding too !

Go for a good secondhand Mariner / Yamaha 4-5hp 2 stroke, with a remote tank and ideally a charging coil; the latter used to be available to retrofit oneself, try Ron Hale Marine, Portsmouth.

 

[Zagato]

Also bought a 4 stroke Tohatsu after quite a while researching engines on forums and speaking to independent outboard service companies. Bought from Ron Hale.

I also have a near new 4 stroke twin cylinder 6 HP Yamaha which came with my Drascombe, lovely engine -sooo quiet, can't hear it ticking over hardly. Independent tank and charger as Sea Jet says a good idea.

 

[Seajet]

Also bought Tohatsu after quite a while researching engines on forums and speaking to independent outboard service companies.

Please see my post above; my Yamaha 4 is still going strong, only relegated to 'spare' when offered a good boat show deal on the Mariner 5, and that itself was - gulp - well over a hard used decade ago.

If buying new for a different boat where weight - for boat trim or owner to lift - is not an issue, yes I'd probably go for the 'sailpower / saildrive' Tohatsu.

 

[dylanwinter]

re - some engines

incidentally

people have told me that some imports are fine because they are CE approved

look at this

http://www.icqc.co.uk/en/china-export.php

makes me a bit sad

 

[Seajet]

incidentally

people have told me that some imports are fine because they are CE approved

look at this

http://www.icqc.co.uk/en/china-export.php

makes me a bit sad

It would be interesting to see the manufacturing tolerances, and the same engine after 10 years use !

I am into the ecology too Dylan, but I and just about everyone I know over 40 have bad backs, arms etc and don't think we should be banned from sailing and using efficient lean auxiliary engines.

Seagull Outboards should only ever have been polished up to nail onto pub walls from the word go, it would have saved an awful lot of frustration and missed tides, let alone pollution !

 

[Simonpk]

I'll check out the differences in the weight, as you say it's hung off the back so could make quite a difference.

My main reason for going the 4 stroke route is less faffing about with oil mixtures, and if not used for a while petrol evaporating leaving oil in the carbs/incorrect mixture in the tank. I wont be lifting it on & off every time just at the beginning & end of the season.

How heavy were engines back in the 70's/80's ? When this boat was built were the 2 strokes as light as they are nowadays?

 

[Seajet]

Simon,

when Oliver Lee designed the Hunter 19 - later Europa - it was an answer to a request for ' a Squib with a lid ' so a pure sailing boat, I doubt much consideration was given to engines.

With that in mind, I'd be very tempted to go for something like a Mariner 2 hp 2 stroke as used on my tenders, do have a think about it, depends on your sailing confidence, also headsail set-up; a downhaul or if really deemed necessary a roller reefing foil might be useful dodging into tight berths.

The only snag would be relying on the internal tank and leaning over the transom to top up; dangerous to the person doing it, potentially messy for the environment too; if doing that - or for general engine use anyway - I'd strongly recommend a safety harness and splash proof funnel, available from good chandleries these have a lip to prevent sloshing when filling from 1 gallon cans, and a handy mesh filter.

When the Europa was built the only 2-strokes going may well have been Seagulls, I'll discount those, but I'm not aware of Japanese 2 strokes becoming much lighter or otherwise since they became the dominant suppliers.

Remember with a transom mounted engine you'll have to face aft to get at the throttle and gearshift, on the plus side you might be able to sell audience tickets if forecasting which marina you'll be arriving at !

I reckon the Europa will be very slippery and carry a surprising amount of way, as I say depending on your type of sailing proposed I really would think about a simple light engine like the Mariner 2.

Mixing the oil is no problem, I measured the amount of oil to give the right mixture then found a 'miniature' spirits bottle of the same amount, I pour the oil into that then dispense a shot into each 1 gallon jerry can.

I've found it worth using good quality oil, the cheap stuff for lawnmowers results in rough running or even cutting out.

I make it a strict personal rule to put the oil in the moment every can comes on board, so in moments of stress I know I don't have to worry ' has this stuff got oil in it ?! '.

Splashproof funnel:

 

[VicS]

I'll check out the differences in the weight, as you say it's hung off the back so could make quite a difference.

My main reason for going the 4 stroke route is less faffing about with oil mixtures, and if not used for a while petrol evaporating leaving oil in the carbs/incorrect mixture in the tank. I wont be lifting it on & off every time just at the beginning & end of the season.

How heavy were engines back in the 70's/80's ? When this boat was built were the 2 strokes as light as they are nowadays?

I have a 1984 Evinrude brochure

A 5 hp long shaft Evinrude was 26.5kg .. (It was basically the same 164 cm³ 2 cyl engine as the 6 hp and 8 hp which weighed the same)

The 87 cm³, twin cyl, l/s, 4 hp Evinrudes were 16.4 kg with an internal tank and 16.0 kg without.
They only had F&N gears. A deluxe version with a similar leg and FNR gearbox as the 5, 6 & 8 hp engines weighed in at 24.5 and 23.8 kg.

 

[dylanwinter]

6 hp tohatsu four stroke weighs 26 kg

I have a 1984 Evinrude brochure

A 5 hp long shaft Evinrude was 26.5kg .. (It was basically the same 164 cm³ 2 cyl engine as the 6 hp and 8 hp which weighed the same)

The 87 cm³, twin cyl, l/s, 4 hp Evinrudes were 16.4 kg with an internal tank and 16.0 kg without.
They only had F&N gears. A deluxe version with a similar leg and FNR gearbox as the 5, 6 & 8 hp engines weighed in at 24.5 and 23.8 kg.

if the weight figure for the evinrude 5hp two stroke are accurate....

although I think they are closer to 45 lbs...



my 6hp four stroke is more powerful,, more fuel efficient lighter than the evinrude two stroke

you can have an external tank on the boat so less hanging over the transom splashing petrol into the tank

plus you will not roast in hell for pishing oil and unburned fuel into our lovely environmentally sensitive waters

I have an evinrude two stroke two cylinder 6hp in the garage - it is a wonderfully smooth engine

it is the quietst outboard I have ever experienced, it hums like a sewing machine

I have not weighed it

but it feels pretty heavy to me

I know that on the tiny two strokes people report massive difference

although my little Honda 2.3 shoves my 23 footer along in fine style and weighs in at a massive 12kg -

at the risk of being lambasted for depriving innocent sailors of seven minutes of their lives that they will never get back...

here it is in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qki9jz8B2tA

and here is the 6hp Tohatsu in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thCgAd4XqXc


I have a single cyclinger Yamaha 5hp two stroke and that does seem pretty noisy too

here it is

but please do not watch the film for fear of taking those valuable minutes from your life

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUWQgvHtgYo

 

[VicS]

if the weight figure for the evinrude 5hp two stroke are accurate....

my 6hp four stroke is more powerful,, more fuel efficient lighter and lighter than the evinrude two stroke

you can have an external tank on the boat so less hanging over the transom splashing petrol into the tank

plus you will not roast in hell for pishing oil and unburned fuel into our lovely environmentally sensitive waters

I have an evinrude two stroke two cylinder 6hp in the garage - it is a wonderfully smooth engine

but it feels pretty heavy to me

I know that on the tiny two strokes there is a massive weight difference amounting to a kg or four

although my little Honda 2.3 shoves my 23 footer along in fine style and weighs in at a massive 12kg -

at the risk of being lambasted for depriving innocent sailors of seven minutes of their lives that they will never get back...

here it is in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qki9jz8B2tA

and here is the 6hp Tohatsu in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thCgAd4XqXc

Manufactururers brochure figures so assumed to be correct.

They are heavier than some of the era but i dont think the heaviest.

So much variation in that size range as some are basically de-rated versions of larger engines while some are smaller engines stretched to the limit

 

[PeteCooper]

I had a 4hp Mariner on the back of my Europa - it was fine. It had an integral tank.

 

[dylanwinter]

apparently

[/SIZE]

Manufactururers brochure figures so assumed to be correct.

They are heavier than some of the ear but i dont think the heaviest.

So much variation in that size range as some are basically de-rated versions of larger engines while some are smaller engines stretched to the limit

apparently the Evinrude weighs 21 kg

so the Tohatsu is 5kg heavier

dunno where that leaves us

it also charges the battery really well though

D

 

[TSB240]

I would highly recommend a 4Hp Johnson/Evinrude 2 stroke for a lightweight sailing boat . It has the highest power to weight ratio of any ob's sub 5HP. It is easy to mount on the back , in a well or on the back of a tender.

It runs on 50/1 quite happily, starts first time every time (Always run dry)

The only downside is reverse is by rotation through 180 degrees which is not easy if its on the back end. Ours has been side mounted on a 20 foot day sailer.

It will stow at any angle and in a very small space.

Dylan is trying to compare an 8hp twin masquerading as a 5hp with his new single cylinder Tohatsu. More pollution pumped out of irresponsible owners of dirty bilges than by small 2 strokes in our area.

Give me a twin 2 stroke any day to get away from the vibration of a thumping single.

You can even get strawberry scented 2 stroke oil to remind you of summers lost.

Dylan will never be a convert whilst I am a 2 stroke Fan having been brought up with the smell of Castrol Racing M and 100cc screaming at 15,000 rpm on tuned scavenging exhausts.

 

[dylanwinter]

dolphin sausages

I would highly recommend a 4Hp Johnson/Evinrude 2 stroke for a lightweight sailing boat . It has the highest power to weight ratio of any ob's sub 5HP. It is easy to mount on the back , in a well or on the back of a tender.

It runs on 50/1 quite happily, starts first time every time (Always run dry)

The only downside is reverse is by rotation through 180 degrees which is not easy if its on the back end. Ours has been side mounted on a 20 foot day sailer.

It will stow at any angle and in a very small space.

Dylan is trying to compare an 8hp twin masquerading as a 5hp with his new single cylinder Tohatsu. More pollution pumped out of irresponsible owners of dirty bilges than by small 2 strokes in our area.

Give me a twin 2 stroke any day to get away from the vibration of a thumping single.

You can even get strawberry scented 2 stroke oil to remind you of summers lost.

Dylan will never be a convert whilst I am a 2 stroke Fan having been brought up with the smell of Castrol Racing M and 100cc screaming at 15,000 rpm on tuned scavenging exhausts.

I have a neighbour who loves eating dolphin and blue whale meat - but only at christmas as a treat and because the oils in the meat are good for his bad back.

he complains that his neighbours occasionally express their dissparoval of his cetacean eating habits


he has a perfect answer in that they should get off his back

there are blokes over there in japan who eat dolphin bolognaise and whale meat fricasse several times a week.

he says that what he does to dolphins and whales is small compared to what the japanses do and he really wishes that they would leave him alone to get on with his life and concentrate their fire on the really bad people who eat more than he does

Dylan

 

[Zagato]

Please see my post above

I was referring to Dylan buying a Tohatsu - you know I always read your posts SJ

The real shock when I was digging around was the hits Hondas recent reputation was getting - I usually reckon Honda do the best engines all round but maybe not in marine engines. Also when i looked into bigger engines for RIBs 90HP+ the Honda was basically a bike engine but Suzuki was was bespoke for marine use. I wouldn't have bought either - far too complex these days, they're not exactly trouble free going by feedback and blimmen expensive to repair - better off with a little 5-6HP and sails!

 

[Seajet]

Pete Cooper,

any chance of a profile photo of your Europa with a 4hp on the back illustrating the trim please ?

Dylan,

there's a lot of confusion between the Dolphin mammal - good old Flipper - and the fish of the same name; your neighbour could just eat mackeral or have pills from a health shop and he and the environment would be better ?

Just as there is confusion between early nasty twin cylinder outboards, large 8hp jobs with restricted carbs to produce 6 hp, and later efficient single cylinder 5hp jobs made for the purpose !

I had a 1970's Evinrude twin 4hp to begin with, it was a nasty, heavy, unreliable thing and a total ~~&%($%£ to work on so soon went to File 13...