Captains License in Montenegro

[Etesian]

In case you are not aware, a captain's license or sailing certificate is required in order to sail Montenegro. We are an American registered boat. Typically a captains license is not required in the USA for pleasure yachts. This is also true of several other countries. We have been sailing in the Mediterranean for the past 6 years. This is the first country that required a captain's license from an American registered boat.

The harbor master was extremely kind and helpful, but he told us we could not sail in Montenegro without a license. It was the law, and he couldn't break the law. He certainly has heard it all before probably numerous times each week. He did however say we could stay in Bar for a couple of days if we needed (wink) any engine worked done.

You don't have to have an American captains license, you just need a license from any country. There are some licensing schools that will issue a license simply by filling out the paperwork and sending in the fees if you are an experienced sailor. That will work. They just need some certification.

BTW, Croatia had a similar law a couple of years back. After the first year, they got rid of the law. A captian's license is not required in Croatia currently. So just a heads up.

 

[Tranona]

Think you are wrong about Croatia, except that they do allow the alternative of an assessment by the local harbourmaster. Inevitably this means that application of the law varies from port to port - but the law is still in place.

What you are experiencing is becoming more common. It is now difficult to charter a boat in the main countries, Greece and Croatia without some form of licence, the most common of which is the ICC. This is issued by governments to their citizens on the basis of either an existing qualification (in many European countries this is compulsory) or as in the UK by taking a specific test based on the minimum requirements for the ICC. In the UK certain RYA qualifications also entitle the holder to an ICC. You will find that the US government isues ICCs but I don't know on what basis.

The ICC is derived from UN Resolution 40 and some countries have signed up to it, but even countries that have not (such as Greece) accept it. It is also supported by the organisation that controls the European inland waterways and is required for visitors using the waterways. You can find out all the background and guidance on acceptance of the certificate on the RYA website.

Just out of interest, you do not need any licence to sail in the UK and normally this is no problem if you are justing entering other countries' territorial waters on what is known as "innocent passage" where that country respects the conditions of your flag. However, once you want to cruise in their territory (as in your case in Montenegro) the rules can change and the state can impose any conditions they want. The advice from your harbourmaster reflects this difference - entering port for provisions and repairs would be covered under innocent passage. In practice, most states don't apply this distinction as you can see from the vast numbers of foreign boats permanently based in countries like Spain, France and Greece.

 

[Etesian]

Think you are wrong about Croatia, except that they do allow the alternative of an assessment by the local harbourmaster. Inevitably this means that application of the law varies from port to port - but the law is still in place.

What you are experiencing is becoming more common. It is now difficult to charter a boat in the main countries, Greece and Croatia without some form of licence, the most common of which is the ICC. This is issued by governments to their citizens on the basis of either an existing qualification (in many European countries this is compulsory) or as in the UK by taking a specific test based on the minimum requirements for the ICC. In the UK certain RYA qualifications also entitle the holder to an ICC. You will find that the US government isues ICCs but I don't know on what basis.

The ICC is derived from UN Resolution 40 and some countries have signed up to it, but even countries that have not (such as Greece) accept it. It is also supported by the organisation that controls the European inland waterways and is required for visitors using the waterways. You can find out all the background and guidance on acceptance of the certificate on the RYA website.

Just out of interest, you do not need any licence to sail in the UK and normally this is no problem if you are justing entering other countries' territorial waters on what is known as "innocent passage" where that country respects the conditions of your flag. However, once you want to cruise in their territory (as in your case in Montenegro) the rules can change and the state can impose any conditions they want. The advice from your harbourmaster reflects this difference - entering port for provisions and repairs would be covered under innocent passage. In practice, most states don't apply this distinction as you can see from the vast numbers of foreign boats permanently based in countries like Spain, France and Greece.

Well is all I can say is that I have been sailing in Croatia for the past 3 months and no one has asked for any certification at all No assessment was asked for. The officials looked at my US registration and proof of insurance. That is it. The harbor master in Montenegro who seemed to know exactly what he was talking about told me that Croatia has repealed any certification requirements for boats flying under a flag that does not require certification. He deals with this issue weekly in an official capacity. What he stated proved to be true when we entered Croatian waters.

I also have to tell you that I have spent over 6 months sailing in the Mediterranean for the past 6 years logging in over 10.000 nautical miles. I have sailed through Spain, France, Italy, Monoco, Turkey, Greece, Albania, Montenegro, and Croatia. Montenegro is the ONLY country that has asked for a captains license or any other kind of certification. I want to be clear. I own my boat and it is US registered. Chartering a boat is a completely seperate issue with completely different set of rules in regards to this matter.

 

[Tranona]

Thanks for that. It is new information if what you are saying is right - and good news for visitors.

Not surprised that you have never been asked for certification in other countries - that is normal. However, it is not unknown for local officials to ask for a "licence" - even if they do not have the right, as is often reported by others here. Local officials have much more "power" in some countries as you will probably find when you get to Greece and Turkey where you will find enforcement of the official rules is very variable. Usually very laid back, but sometimes can very disruptive to the point of seemingly introducing their own interpretations.

AFAIK it is only Croatia and Montenegro that have attempted to impose such a condition on visitors in their own boats. The purpose of the legislation (in Croatia at least) was to introduce some control over the explosion in charter activity and visitors (particularly from Italy) that occcurred after the end of hostilities and the re-opening of the area to tourists.

 

[Etesian]

I have sailed all throughout Turkey and Greece for the past couple of years. Turkey is really one of my favorite places to sail. Never asked for any certification from either country's officials. Like I said, it has never been an issue for me. Has anyone else that owned their boat and registered in USA had a problem??

 

[jimbaerselman]

I have sailed all throughout Turkey and Greece for the past couple of years. Turkey is really one of my favorite places to sail. Never asked for any certification from either country's officials. Like I said, it has never been an issue for me. Has anyone else that owned their boat and registered in USA had a problem??

I don't know about USA boats, but UK doesn't require skippers of its registered leisure boats to be licensed.

I have had reports that after incidents/accidents causing damage in Turkey, the authorities have insisted that skippers of UK boats prove their competence (as well as producing their insurance certificates!) before being allowed to leave port. Presenting a qualification (such as an ICC) has been acceptable proof.

However, one owner reported to me that he had no certificate to hand, and was required to take a handling test to prove his competence before being allowed to depart. I wasn't told the details of his incident, or the degree to which it gave grounds for thinking the skipper wasn't competent. Waiting for the test delayed his departure several days, and cost him some €70 for the examiner's expenses.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

Hi

I have been boarded twice in spain and asked to produce all certification including ICC
both times at the Colombrete islands in the Valencia authority.

 

[Frankie-H]

I have had reports that after incidents/accidents causing damage in Turkey, the authorities have insisted that skippers of UK boats prove their competence (as well as producing their insurance certificates!) before being allowed to leave port. Presenting a qualification (such as an ICC) has been acceptable proof.

However, one owner reported to me that he had no certificate to hand, and was required to take a handling test to prove his competence before being allowed to depart..

I only wish this was true in other countries and marinas. All too often we have idiots jumping aboard their boats and damaging their neighbours. Sometimes in the more extreem cases, ruining their whole summers.

 

[ribrage]

Hi

I have been boarded twice in spain and asked to produce all certification including ICC
both times at the Colombrete islands in the Valencia authority.

Ditto

I've been pulled up twice by guardia civil in spain and asked for ships papers and this INCLUDED skippers tickets, the rules/ laws are interpreted as they see fit in most countries and to argue just inflicts more paper waving .

Better to have the "skippers licence" and avoid the grief when you get asked ??

 

[jimbaerselman]

Usually, when boarded in Atlantic Spain, the Customs cutter fills in a comprehensive form and leaves a copy with you. If you're flagged down again, you then just show them the completed form, and they won't re-examine your papers.

I assumed this was also the method in Med Spain?

Apparently, the process is part of their border control, designed to detect or deter drug or people smuggling.

 

[Etesian]

What flag are you under? And are you the ower of the boat? I do know that Spain is cracking down on mostly European Union boats registering their boats in the US to avoid paying the VAT tax. They have been requiring an American captain if it is an American registered boat.

Hi

I have been boarded twice in spain and asked to produce all certification including ICC
both times at the Colombrete islands in the Valencia authority.

 

[Tranona]

Registration in itself doe not have any bearing on the requirement to pay VAT.

What I think you will find happening here is that the boat is owned by an offshore company and therefore is not liable for VAT, which is a tax on transactions, not on boats. That is the tax is levied when the boat is sold in the EU.

Such boats are not normally allowed to operate in the EU unless they are granted temporary importation as visitors. This is only available to legitimate non resident visitors and the conditions of use are limited effectively to use by the non resident owner. (Presumably you have this temporary importation for your own boat).

For obvious reasons Customs would be suspicious of a US flagged vessel that could not prove VAT had been paid, but was being used by an EU resident.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

Hi

Yes I am the owner, the yacht is registered in Jersey UK , but is vat paid.
looking to head out to Greece soon where I believe the registration will cause me a few
issues though.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

oh and I am Scottish/British

 

[Tranona]

Hi

Yes I am the owner, the yacht is registered in Jersey UK , but is vat paid.
looking to head out to Greece soon where I believe the registration will cause me a few
issues though.

Yes, you may be treated as a non-EU boat and limited to a 30 day cruising permit rather than unlimited as EU boats are (although they still have to get a cruising log DEKPA if over 10m).

As with many things in Greece you may find enforcement variable.

 

[Gallant Spirit]

Yes the Jersey registration can be a bit of a pain but there are some financial benefits
such as not paying vat on large items such as generator/insurance/ thruster etc and registration lasts 10 years, she is vat paid though so I am not 100% sure yet how this will
affect me in Greece, but after cruising Spain for 2 years it is time for a change of scenery
and a break from very high marina fees !! ( no choice as work on rotation and have to leave boat)

 

[Pua'ena]

We are US flagged and US citizens on a sailboat in the Med. We found in Gibraltar that the RYA will now issue to Americans and others the ICC. We found that old courses we had done in the 90's with US Sailing permitted them to issue and courier to us the American International Certificates of Proficiency modeled after the ICC but probably not as rigorous. Sailing schools that qualify will issue the ICC after taking you out for a one day competence check, cost was around 120 pounds but we did not pursue it after finding that US Sailing would do it. ASA also does it. The 2012 Adriatic Pilot and some other writings refer to Montenegro requiring a certificate of competence on the skipper (p.27). We are hoping our new US "ICC" will qualify but time will tell. Sv Pua'ena, Mallorca

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Think you are wrong about Croatia, except that they do allow the alternative of an assessment by the local harbourmaster. Inevitably this means that application of the law varies from port to port - but the law is still in place.

The authorities in Croatia are not remotely interested in any kind of boating qualification. When you buy a cruising vignette, they might ask for your insurance and registration documents but any inspection is cursory. The vignette is essential though because when you berth in any harbour or marina, you need to present your vignette receipt and crew list

 

[Tranona]

You are right. The requirement only applies to Croatian flagged boats. Apologies.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Yes, you may be treated as a non-EU boat and limited to a 30 day cruising permit rather than unlimited as EU boats are (although they still have to get a cruising log DEKPA if over 10m).

As with many things in Greece you may find enforcement variable.

Yes. The difficulty with Jersey/Guernsey registered boats is that they are often assumed to be non-VAT paid. If you produce proof that VAT has been paid, the boat is entitled to free circulation within the EU, and can also be used by both EU citizens and non-EU citizens within the EU.

That means a DEKPA . . . not a cruising permit. If an attempt is made to limit the boat's circulation with a cruising permit, a big smile and a request to check with HQ should rapidly sort out the error.

Errm, incidentally, if the boat has significant modifications (bow thrusters etc) while outside the EU, these should be declared when the boat re-enters . . . for VAT payment on the added value. Perhaps evidence in an earlier post should be edited . . .