Converting winches to self-tailing

PuffTheMagicDragon

PuffTheMagicDragon

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My latest boat has two Barient 26 and two Barient 22 sheet winches. All four are two-speed but they are 'standard'. At present they are removed and, after removing all the accumulated crud while servicing them, I realised that the gearing and the bearings are still in an excellent condition with no signs of wear. I understand that it is possible to convert them to self-tailing. I am tempted because replacement would be quite expensive; I believe that the equivalent to the Barient 26 would be a 40 or 44 in modern terms . Has anybody here taken that path?

As always, very grateful for any opinions / experiences / good or bad.

TIA.
 
ghostlymoron said:
You can use a 'Wincher' which is a sort of rubber device that can be fitted on non-self tailers. They are claimed to act a self tailers but I haven't used one so I can't verify the claims. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udk5mY5QJQc
Click to expand...

Got them fitted to primary winches and they work a treat . They were on the boat when purchased and didn't look new then so they are some years old and working fine .
 
Ditto: Wincher

I fitted these to my previous boat (Southerly 95) many years ago. They worked very well and were left in place all year round. I worried about UV degradation but that never seemed to be a problem (though I did cover them in winter). I can't remember when they were fitted but think that they were at least 6 years old when I sold the boat.

Before I bought them I seem to remember some people saying that they didn't work. Enough voted in favour to make them worth trying (& I got a discount when buying).

It was pre-YouTube days so when they arrived I assumed that the rope fitted into the groove on top in same way as normal self-tailing gear. Didn't take long to work out that they just go around the winch as normal with enough turns to press against the underside of the Wincher.

I suppose it would have helped to at least open the instructions.
 
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Are these Winchers man enough for a 35m^2 Genoa in a stiff wind? I was thinking more in terms of an all-metal conversion such as is advertised by an Australian company, Arco Hutton Winches, whose products appear to have taken over where Barient / Barlow left off.
 
Mistroma said:
I fitted these to my previous boat (Southerly 95) many years ago. They worked very well and were left in place all year round. I worried about UV degradation but that never seemed to be a problem (though I did cover them in winter). I can't remember when they were fitted but think that they were at least 6 years old when I sold the boat.

Before I bought them I seem to remember some people saying that they didn't work. Enough voted in favour to make them worth trying (& I got a discount when buying).

It.

I suppose it would have helped to at least open the instructions.
Click to expand...


was pre-YouTube days so when they arrived I assumed that the rope fitted into the groove on top in same way as normal self-tailing gear. Didn't take long to work out that they just go around the winch as normal with enough turns to press against the underside of the Wincher
Click to expand...

I did the same .

Question ----- what is the groove around the top for ??
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
Are these Winchers man enough for a 35m^2 Genoa in a stiff wind? I was thinking more in terms of an all-metal conversion such as is advertised by an Australian company, Arco Hutton Winches, whose products appear to have taken over where Barient / Barlow left off.
Click to expand...

No problem what so ever . Never had any problem winching the genny in in a stiff wind and thats on a 12ton sloop
 
The Wincher

Not certain about that, best to check wrt your winch size.

My genoa was around 28-30m2 and sheets never slipped on winch. I did worry about them slipping initially but got used to using them.

They aren't as good as proper self-tailing winches but I only paid a fraction of the cost (around £30 if I remember). So they were a good buy.

I think that they will probably slip in gusts with changes in wind direction. i.e. Load comes off and then back on suddenly. Didn't happen to me but that might be down to fact that I usually cleated off the tail when finished trimming.

So fine in light steady breeze but need to cleat off tail in stronger winds. However, the self-tailing action does work and makes things much easier.

The only other option I had at the time was to buy new self-tailing winches and price difference made it worth risking a trial.

I imagine that any manufacturer's conversion kit would be very expensive by comparison.
 
Groove

clyst said:
I did the same .

Question ----- what is the groove around the top for ??
Click to expand...

Once I realised that the groove wasn't designed to take the rope I looked at the unit in use. Nothing really obvious happens to give any clue. So I just made the sheet off on an adjacent cleat.

On further checking, I found that you were actually supposed to jam the sheet into the groove to cleat it. Never did that as my existing cleat was easier to use.

A proper self-tailer peels the rope out as you sheet in. The wincher doesn't have any static (i.e. non-rotating) mechanism to peel the rope. So you just put turns on the drum and wind it in before cleating (top of wincher or nearby cleat).

I usually left the rope cleated when sheeting in further and took out the slack on the cleat when I'd finished. I suspect that wouldn't work if it was cleated on top of the drum (due to it twisting around in use).

Hope that this helps.
 
There is no doubt that 'winchers' make singlehanded winching with non selftailers much much easier. I have them on 6 of my 7 winches and have been delighted with them. Yes winching is still a two handed operation but only the grinding bit needs muscle which makes in my opinion a very big difference. I also find that even on the sheet winches on a 36 footer they hold jus fine without any back up cleating.
 
maxi77 said:
There is no doubt that 'winchers' make singlehanded winching with non selftailers much much easier. I have them on 6 of my 7 winches and have been delighted with them. Yes winching is still a two handed operation but only the grinding bit needs muscle which makes in my opinion a very big difference. I also find that even on the sheet winches on a 36 footer they hold jus fine without any back up cleating.
Click to expand...

Great bit of kit,I use the groove as a jammer and it works just fine.
 
You all sound very convincing so I guess I'll give the Winchers a try. I'll require 2x 6" diameter top flange and 2 more for 4-3/4"

Thanks everyone for your opinions. All the best!
 
I fitted them to my secondary winches,and am happy with the result.

They are a bit of a beggar to fit as they are a tight fit,they say to use some w/u liquid, but I did not want them to slip,so used warm water and brute force.
If using them on genoa winches I would take the sheets to the existing cleat for security.
Definitely cover them when not in use as the sunlight will eventually do them no good.
 
jamesmar said:
I fitted them to my secondary winches,and am happy with the result.

They are a bit of a beggar to fit as they are a tight fit,they say to use some w/u liquid, but I did not want them to slip,so used warm water and brute force.
If using them on genoa winches I would take the sheets to the existing cleat for security.
Definitely cover them when not in use as the sunlight will eventually do them no good.
Click to expand...

Good points. The UV index down here is regularly 10 or 11 during most months of summer. Still trying to find a mail-order source for them on the web.
 
Horatio said:
Theres a company selling them on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Barto...UK_Sporting_Goods_Sailing&hash=item53d9613a56
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. I am puzzled because they quote the "drum diameter". I would have thought that the relevant diameter would be that of the top flange, in which case their largest size would be too small - which I think is unlikely. I know that the diameter of the top flange is 6" (roughly 153mm). Tomorrow morning I shall measure the actual drum and then ask the seller to clarify. Thanks, once again, for your help.
 
I did a Google on winchers and found this:

http://www.defender.com/category.jsp?path=-1|118|3071&id=899943

Four different sizes. As i recall from ordering mine years ago for our old C25, if you know the winch you have, the vendor should be able to tell you the proper size to order. But I also remember them sizing it based on the drum diameter, NOT the top of the winch.

Barton is the manufacturer from the Google search. Defender is a US distributor.

You'll really like them, they work great. I never bothered to cleat or use the drum for the tail of the sheet. Just get an extra wrap around the drum below the wincher and it will hold just fine.
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
Thanks for the link. I am puzzled because they quote the "drum diameter". I would have thought that the relevant diameter would be that of the top flange, in which case their largest size would be too small - which I think is unlikely. I know that the diameter of the top flange is 6" (roughly 153mm). Tomorrow morning I shall measure the actual drum and then ask the seller to clarify. Thanks, once again, for your help.
Click to expand...

Yes it is drum diameter and for some winches getting them on can be quite an effort. You will need lots of hot water and patience in some cases, but you do need a really tight fit for them to work

Have fun but it is worth it.
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
My latest boat has two Barient 26 and two Barient 22 sheet winches. All four are two-speed but they are 'standard'. At present they are removed and, after removing all the accumulated crud while servicing them, I realised that the gearing and the bearings are still in an excellent condition with no signs of wear. I understand that it is possible to convert them to self-tailing. I am tempted because replacement would be quite expensive; I believe that the equivalent to the Barient 26 would be a 40 or 44 in modern terms . Has anybody here taken that path?

As always, very grateful for any opinions / experiences / good or bad.

TIA.
Click to expand...

Lots as you see like them, I did to until one let me down badly in a F6 gusting 8/9, have now fitted new self tailers and would never go back to winchers again.

I sail a 38 and when single handed can trust them implicitly, where as before i always had it in the back of my mind they were not real self tailers, just a cheap modification.
Depending on what sort of sailing you intend or now do will indicate which path to take.
 
maxi77 said:
Yes it is drum diameter and for some winches getting them on can be quite an effort. You will need lots of hot water and patience in some cases, but you do need a really tight fit for them to work

Have fun but it is worth it.
Click to expand...
I found if you take off the top of the winch and fit the winchers from below they are easy. The top flange rubber of the winchers is much thinner than the bottom flange and so is much more flexible.
 
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