Liveaboard -sail vs power

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seastar777

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I know, I know it is like Sky and Earth, but still... We are couple of old dreamers, you can call us old fools..I am 43 , husband is 67. We going to buy a boat and live a board. When we started to look for a boat we liked Birchwood 330 , but the more we look the more we like idea of sailing boat. Inevitable luck of experience makes decision harder. So we will be very grateful for any opinion.
 
seastar777 said:
I know, I know it is like Sky and Earth, but still... We are couple of old dreamers, you can call us old fools..I am 43 , husband is 67. We going to buy a boat and live a board. When we started to look for a boat we liked Birchwood 330 , but the more we look the more we like idea of sailing boat. Inevitable luck of experience makes decision harder. So we will be very grateful for any opinion.
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If you intend to be on the move ,as opposed to static,you need to think fuel costs(unless you have bottomless pockets). Why not consider a motor sailer,which will usually have a bigger engine and perhaps a smaller sailing rig than a pure sailing boat.
My boat,a Nab/Rasmus 35,although she sails very well indeed ,is classed as a motor sailer.
 
seastar777 said:
I know, I know it is like Sky and Earth, but still... We are couple of old dreamers, you can call us old fools..I am 43 , husband is 67. We going to buy a boat and live a board. When we started to look for a boat we liked Birchwood 330 , but the more we look the more we like idea of sailing boat. Inevitable luck of experience makes decision harder. So we will be very grateful for any opinion.
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It depends very much on what your ambitions are. If it is inland waterways and not travelling very far then a displacement motorboat is best - for example if you just wanted to potter in the European canals. However, there are very few modern boats of this type built in the UK, although very popular in say Holland. Most are therefore old and need a lot of maintenance. The majority of boats of a size sufficient to liveaboard are based on planing type hulls which are less satisfactory at low speeds and you lose a lot of space to engines and machinery you do not need. They are also very expensive to run if you want to travel far.

So most people who intend voyaging any distance and living aboard choose a sailing boat which are generally more economical to run and there is a huge choice of suitable boats in the 30-40ft range, many of which can be made into comfortable cruising homes for a couple. Older boats can be had for under £30k, but often need a lot of work to adapt for this kind of use - although some come on the market ready to go from owners who are retiring or giving up. You will find, for example if you want to cruise the Med that you will need different gear to cope with living in the climate and for the different style of sailing from northern waters.

There is masses of material published on liveaboards - books, magazine articles, blogs etc. Once you get into it you will not be short of information and advice.

One suggestion is to take a 2 week flotilla holiday in somehwere nice and warm and gentle like the Ionian. Choose a boat about 32 foot rather than a smaller cheaper one as you will gain a huge amount of experience of both handling a boat and living on board. We chartered a boat initially in Turkey and 3 year's later bought a 37 footer in Corfu based on what we learned from 3 years of chartering. Great success.

Good luck in your adventures.
 
If you've got loadsa money, then a motor boat is probably the way to go. I agree with Tranona that a displacement hull is the best bet, both in term of available space and fuel economy. Probably also easier handling then a planing hull, as it'll be less affected by the wind.

However, if you're planning on doing a good deal of moving, then sail or motor sailer is the way to go, as it will keep your costs down by using the wind when it's there. When you read the books, some will advise chartering the boat you're thinking of buying - we didn't and don't regret the choice at all.

My uncle, who has lived on board for about 15 years, gave us some advice which we followed and found it worked for us, which was to buy the biggest boat we could afford that we felt comfortable handling. We did this and have found the advice sound, as you do accumulate 'stuff' when living on board. Bikes, sewing machine, barbeque - the list is endless and you need somewhere to put it.

Whatever you choose, do enjoy yourselves!
 
thank you all for your comments,we will now look at motor sailing something we had not thought of,we will let you know the outcome of our searches on any particular boats we like,,,,many thanks
 
Trawlers could also be in your options. These are displacement hulls and adapted to long passages at slow speed. <10 knots.

GL
 
don't forget the many excellent semi displacement boats like Broom. Atlantic, Hardy, Aquastar etc Aft cabin with raised aft deck makes for a huge internal accommodation, length for length.
Agree forget big engined planing boats for long distance cruising unless very deep pockets for fuel. Motorboats in general will give you more accomadation length for length than the equivalent sailing boat.
 
Another point to consider is draft (both air and below the waterline). Air draft is usually no problem after taking down the mast on a sailing yacht, but could be an issue with a mobo, depending on which one(s) you are looking at. Low a/d is essential for inland cruising. With a low draft below the waterline you can access anchorages others cannot. Especially useful in popular places when there may be a lot of other yachts and you just want to get from them and/or find a more sheltered spot. If you decide to veer towards sailing, also consider a catamaran. More space, lower draft, but obviously the wide beam has disadvantages, too. It's really down to where you plan to take the boat and compromises will always need to be taken.

Good luck!
 
Hello everyone, it's me again...

So after taking RYA competent crew and day skipper courses and reading this forum like a bible every evening, and books and magazines and more.. we decided on what we are going to buy and what we are going to do. We are thinking about Bavaria 390 Lagoon, it seems nice and comfy. And it seems in the budget we set for ourself , around 50K-ish , thought we can possibly go up to 70, but I can always find use for some extra cash:). We are thinking about going to the Med first and then we will see. What you would recommend in the same price range for nice and carefree (well, as carefree as possible) living and sailing?
 
seastar777 said:
I know, I know it is like Sky and Earth, but still... We are couple of old dreamers, you can call us old fools..I am 43 , husband is 67. We going to buy a boat and live a board. When we started to look for a boat we liked Birchwood 330 , but the more we look the more we like idea of sailing boat. Inevitable luck of experience makes decision harder. So we will be very grateful for any opinion.
Click to expand...

It will all depend on whether you are going to actually go somewhere or just live on it like a houseboat, the second question would be are you fit enough or agile enough to run around pulling sails up/down and in/out between rigging or a casual stroll on deck to throw a mooring line.
Having answered these questions you will then know if it'll be motor or sail. The motorboat will give you more room like a little apartment, the sailboat means climbing over things in/out of hatches and lockers.
Lack of experience makes no difference to your choice, both will need a learning curve the sailboat being the steeper one.
Hope thats a wee bit of help.
 
ukmctc said:
It will all depend on whether you are going to actually go somewhere or just live on it like a houseboat, the second question would be are you fit enough or agile enough to run around pulling sails up/down and in/out between rigging or a casual stroll on deck to throw a mooring line.
Having answered these questions you will then know if it'll be motor or sail. The motorboat will give you more room like a little apartment, the sailboat means climbing over things in/out of hatches and lockers.
Lack of experience makes no difference to your choice, both will need a learning curve the sailboat being the steeper one.
Hope thats a wee bit of help.
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Oh it definitely will be sailing boat , you answered my first question I asked long time ago before we went on RYA courses and before we actually tried it on a sailing boat. It is like a bug, once you tried it you are hooked:) Well , we are anyway...So it is why I asked the next question in my previous post. Because we are looking for something for us. My dear husband wanted something big like 46 footer or even 50. But I think we would be just fine on something like 33-36 foot boat. So we decided to meet in between and I found this Bavaria 390 Lagoon, it seems very nice. But I would really love to hear an opinion of forumites here. For novices as we are advise from experts is priceless:)
 
Why not go for a 36ft catamaran. Perfect live aboard and you will see lots of them in the MED. More room that you would imajine and with the stability so you can walk around in all weather conditions.

Peter
 
Thanks Peter

Thing is for some reason husband thinks that catamarans are not as reliable like mono-hulls, and from my point of view catamarans are great for accommodation but in marinas it can be very expensive, and even if we love to stay on anchor all the time, it is impossible, because at one point or another we will have to go to marinas, anyway, accommodation is important for us but it is not soooo important, otherwise we would stay at home and watch telly. Why we are going is because we want to see places and meet people that we wouldn't see or meet otherwise.
 
Are you thinking of purchasing in the UK and bringing it to the Med or buying out here ?
Purchase in the UK is useful for fitting out prior to leaving if you know what is needed.
Would you be going throught the canals. Draught could be a consideration.
Or are you thinking of buying out here. There are deals at well below the asking price but finding them can be a problem.
Why not take a cheap package holiday to somewhere like Marmaris. Have a look around the yards to see what is sitting there. Have a look in the brokers. Chat to liveaboards in the Yacht Marine bar. Will give you a good feel for many aspects.
 
We are thinking about buying it here fitting it properly,because we do believe that here we can find better service and it is part of the fun, and I understood its much cheaper to buy parts here in UK,and go down there in a year time or so, as well we have some commitments that are keeping us here but it is not a problem, there is lots to discover and lots to do around here, as some forumites proved to us:) and we have to learn a great deal before we leave. We do not thinking about going through canals, we do have all time in the world on our hands so we can do it leisurely as I read in one of the books I bought:). Yes looking for a boat down there probably not bad idea and I am sure if we would be more experienced we would do just that. But because we are not, and because of the uncertainties in the economic and political situation , we thought better to do it here, because as we say in Russia, at home even walls helps you:)
 
You are right about fitting out, UK is much easier and cheaper to buy equipment. If you are coming to the Med do not forget that you need to protect yourself from heat rather than cold. Bimini's and fridges take on a new dimension down here.
The canals are not necessarily quicker. With 200 odd locks, limited hours and speed restrictions it is quite slow. A matter of choice really. Midi, Marne, Loire or Biscay - all good can't go wrong really.
 
Thank you

tonybannister said:
. Bimini's and fridges take on a new dimension down here.
The canals are not necessarily quicker. With 200 odd locks, limited hours and speed restrictions it is quite slow. A matter of choice really. Midi, Marne, Loire or Biscay - all good can't go wrong really.
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Yes I am originally from Sevastopol, Crimea, not so far away from Istanbul, so I do know thing or two about summer heat:) And I am reading this forum with great attention, so bimini, fridge and solar panels are on the "To DO" list already:) David lived on the yacht in Spain some time ago and I worked like an engineer for Russian Navy, was installing sonar equipment. So I do believe with careful approach and with use of common sense we can do it, though our friends do think we are mad:)
This forum is a gold mine for us. So thank you very much for sharing your knowledge and experience.
We thought at first to go via canals but somehow Biscay is more appealing to us. Though , of course it still can be change:)
Tania
 
i have a very similar boat, a Bavaria 37 - bit newer at 2001. Had it in the Med for 10 years, but mostly just long holidaying rather than liveaboard. Very suitable for Med living for 2 people and occasional guests. You will find you live "outside" a lot at anchor or tied up to a quay so big cockpit, open transom and bimini cover are big advantages. Very few downsides - perhaps shortage of locker space compared with some of the older deeper designs and galley not so good for cooking at sea - but fine for anchorages.

Only drawback of that style of boat (and many others once you get over 35ft) is too much draft which rules out the canals so you are thrown in the deep end going round the outside. Fine if that is what you want to do but the Western Med is littered with abandoned dreams following the passage from the UK. Best taken in small doses with no time constraints! You can, of course get shallow draft boats that can do the canals up to 40 ft or even more, but you are much more limited in choice (mostly to lifting keels and older twin keels) although you can get shallow draft fins like mine at 1.4m, but the ultimate sailing performance usually suffers.

Strongly advise you to do a bareboat charter in somewhere nice and gentle like the Ionian for a couple of weeks in a similar size boat. Not only will it be a good experience learning to handle the boat on your own, but it will give you a taste of how different it is living on a boat in a hot climate. This will be a great help when you come to choose and fit out your own boat. Buying a boat here has the advantages you mention, but the drawback is that you will probably need quite a bit of expenditure bringing it up to a good spec for the Med. Items like covers, fridge, electrics (batteries, solar, extra charging) electric windlass, extra ground tackle etc can soon add several thousands to the purchase price of the boat You may, of course be lucky and find a boat like mine that has returned from the Med and has most of the essentials already.

The alternative is to buy a boat out there if the main objective is enjoying the easy lifestyle there rather than the big project of getting there. There is a very wide range of boats on the market, both privately owned and ex charter which can be excellent value as they are usually very well equipped with the right gear.

You are welcome to have a look at my boat to get an idea of what a together boat looks like. If you want to pursue the idea of chartering and possible buying a boat PM me and I can give you contacts in Greece.
 
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