Which chemical toilet

lustyd

lustyd

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I'm thinking of getting some sort of facilities for the boat. It's too small for a sea toilet which I also think would end up smelling badly. I figured with a removable chemical one I could at least take it home to clean. Has there been an article in the mags over the last year or so that I've forgotten about? Can anyone offer comments on available products good or bad? Bad comments are usually more helpful than good so if anyone has had one explode and paint their boat that would be interesting :)
Thanks
Dave
 
Chemical toilets don't explode as the holding tank is treated with formadehyde to kill bacterial growth and its a straight drop from sphinctre to tank, with a blade across when not in use. The ones I've seen and used are much of a muchness with a removeable holding tank and a small tank for flushing water (not particularly effective). I'm not sure that they take up any less space than a sea toilet, but can be used anywhere without need to position where suitable through hull fittings can be positioned in the hull. I would suggest a camping or caravan shop to take a look at what's available. There is a branch of Towsure in Southampton - or you can mail order from them. Otherwise, there are caravan shops on the A4 near Aldermaston and another around Three Mile Cross. I don't know of any North of Reading.

Rob.
 
I bought a Bog in a Bag:
http://www.boginabag.co.uk/
for my Hurley 18. I've not actually had occasion to use it yet, but I wanted a product that had a sort of gel powder that would make your liquids solid, so to speak. There's also the TravelLoo:
http://www.travelloo.co.uk/
But, being of the feminine persuasion, I wanted something I could sit on. The disadvantage of the gel loos is that you have to keep on buying the bags, but the advantage of not having a bucket of sloshing urine/blue chemical liquid about the boat outweighed that for me. Plus, you should be able to move the waste up to a cockpit locker, so that it's not stinking up the cabin.
 
We have an ordinary caravan "porta Potti" in our boat. Does the job without smell or mess.

TIP: Make sure you secure it well. On one occasion when we heeled over a bit to far, the potti rolled out of it's cupboard into the cabin. Thankfully the only spillage was a little of the flushing water. The holding tank is well sealed, assuming you remember to slide the valve shut after use.

It's now secured to prevent a re occurrence.

One of the deciding factors that made us buy this boat was it had a "heads compartment" (really just a big cupboard) with a curtain across it for a little privacy. Most boats of this size have nothing, or a toilet under one of the seats with no privacy at all.
 
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If you're buying new, the best bet is probably one of the Porta Potti MDS marine models

They have tabs on the base for securing the loo to the boat

The 365MSD also has a take off from the holding tank for a connection to a pump out deck fitting - which could also be used, as I plan to do on Brigantia, to connect up a manual or electric waste pump to a sea cock discharging below the water line *

We've always favoured the Porta Pottis but there's nothing wrong with the similar products from other manufacturers. The simplest, and cheapest, solution is the good old Elsan bucket and chuck it but the drawback on a yacht is that they don't seal very well (and are a bit unpleasant to use as there's nothing to hide the foul contents from view once the lid is off)

Key is to use just enough blue to keep the contents from becoming unpleasant - don't bother with the green fluid (it may be green but it's also useless)

If you pick up a s/h loo, the main problem is usually with the seal around the flap that closes off the lower waste tank. They're readily available for a few squids and easy to fit (for most models although my brother has a very elderly 165 that leaks and is so obsolete that the parts are no longer available to repair it)

* You may well ask why not just fit a basic sea toilet? The answer is that a 365MDS Portapotti discharging via a manual pump to the sea is a single unit alternative to a sea toilet, diverter valve, pump and, crucially, holding tank.

I'm working on the assumption that restrictions will arrive on where human waste can be discharged to the sea and finding space for a separate holding tank on a boat the size of ours would be a problem

As there's no
 
I have been going through the same thought processes as my existing tolet is defunct and none of the currently avaialble seatoilets will fit the space.

Porta Pottis are the well known make and indeed what we used when camping ( although we did start with an Elsan bucket! :( )

They come in a vareity of sizes so check them against the space you have available
The 365MSD would be nice but too tall for my boat. It will have to be the smallest, the 135, for me.

Also look at the other brands in particular the Fiamma Bi-pot range.
http://www.fiammastore.com/Portable-Toilets/Fiamma-Bi-Pot-Portable-Toilet

The Fiamma Bi-pot 30 is one I am considering.
They have been particularly recommended to me.
I am told they have a larger seat than the Porta Pottis :rolleyes:


Since our camping days there have been changes to the fluids available.
There are now more environmentally friendly fluids than formaldehyde and there are fluids that are compatible with sceptic tanks, which formaldehyde is not.

Emptying the darned thing is my concern. OK if you are in a marina with the appropriate facilities but a pain if you have to ferry it ashore in a small dinghy and then take it home. :mad:

I might yet end up refurbishing an old SL 400 sea toilet
 
VicS said:
Since our camping days there have been changes to the fluids available.
There are now more environmentally friendly fluids than formaldehyde and there are fluids that are compatible with sceptic tanks, which formaldehyde is not.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you try finding them in a shop.

We have a septic tank at home, so can't empty a formaldehyde toiled into it. So whenever we use the caravan, we have to empty the toilet on the site before leaving, which means we can't us it on the journey.

No problem with the boat toilet, we can empty that at the sailing club on mains drainage.

I remember seeing an advert (and a money off coupon) for a new chemical, I think they called it "aqua chem eco" or something like that. So I tried all the caravan dealers up here, and none stocked it, or had any plans to stock it. "there's no demand for it" was their answer. which is strange for a region with a lot of scattered rural settlements with a high proportion of such houses on septic tanks.
 
On the chemicals front ...

Aqua Kem Green I've always found to be in stock right next to the Aqua Kem Blue in every shop I've ever bought the stuff in. It's the normal choice for anyone wanting to avoid Formaldehyde based products and is fine for sceptic tanks

However, it is nowhere near as effective at breaking down the contents of the tank and reducing the whiff as the hard stuff and, crucially, only works for short periods - if you go green it's essential to empty the loo and wash it out before leaving it for more than a few days (after a week or so the contents will start to go nasty)

In contrast, with the evil blue you can leave the contents for weeks or even months and the longer they are left the less unpleasant they become to empty out!

Thetford, who produce Aqua Kem, are a bit disingenuous about the contents of their products and the environmental effects of formaldehyde but the minute quantities from a limited number of chemical loos being emptied into the sea are not going to have any detrimental effects so we currently use blue. With the ability to pump out to a below water skin fitting I'd switch to green - currently that's not an option because of the undesirability of emptying the loo over the side in the middle of the moorings! (Meaning we usually leave the loo with some contents festering between trips)

It is worth noting that Aqua Kem Blue is not the same the world over - in Australia, for example, it is formaldehyde free and a completely different product to the version on sale in the UK (this is far from clear in Thetfords literature!)

From long experience, the biggest problem with formaldehyde based toilet chemicals is that people use far too much of the stuff. This results in a strong formaldehyde smell which is unpleasant and can cause irritation in some people Used in the correct amount and there's virtually no noticeable smell at all either from the chemical or the contents
 
ProDave said:
Yes, but you try finding them in a shop.

We have a septic tank at home, so can't empty a formaldehyde toiled into it. So whenever we use the caravan, we have to empty the toilet on the site before leaving, which means we can't us it on the journey.

No problem with the boat toilet, we can empty that at the sailing club on mains drainage.

I remember seeing an advert (and a money off coupon) for a new chemical, I think they called it "aqua chem eco" or something like that. So I tried all the caravan dealers up here, and none stocked it, or had any plans to stock it. "there's no demand for it" was their answer. which is strange for a region with a lot of scattered rural settlements with a high proportion of such houses on septic tanks.
Click to expand...

Aqua Kem Green and Elsan Organic are formaldehyde free, septic tank compatible fluids.

But no I have no tried our local camping shop. They should be available on line though.
Problems may be due to the fact that until recently the Caravan Club insisted on formaldehyde based solutions being used.

Blast a thunder storm has put my BB connection out
I was going to check on other brands.
 
Postscriptum ...

On the Caravan Club ... it is true that Rule 19 specified the use of formaldehyde based chemicals until recently. This was a historic hangover and honoured mostly in the breach rather than the observance!

On the composition of Aqua Kem Blue ... several indications on independent web pages suggest this is now formaldehyde free. However, there is no confirmation of this on the Thetford web site and Thetford still recommend green for sceptic tank use. As I'm currently using stocks I've had kicking around for years I'll be interested to see what a new bottle is like both odour and performance wise
 
Brigantia said:
Aqua Kem Green I've always found to be in stock right next to the Aqua Kem Blue in every shop I've ever bought the stuff in. It's the normal choice for anyone wanting to avoid Formaldehyde based products and is fine for sceptic tanks
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I'll give the green a go.

So if the Green IS septic tank friendly, what was all the fanfare a few years ago and all the adverts in caravan magazines for the launch of the Aqua Chem Eco (or whatever it was called) that was septic tank friendly (this was the one I never found in any shop)

Surely if they already had a septic tank friendly product, all that was needed was something printed on the bottle to that effect?

Sometimes I despair at "marketing" and advertising.
 
Thanks for the help guys. I had forgotten about the bags with crystals, although £1.60 per pee seems a little steep.
My thinking is to avoid a sea toilet altogether as the small space would likely end up being a bit unpleasant.
Since I would rarely be away from land for more than a day or two I think I could probably get away without all the chemicals as well - this is mainly a plan to avoid pointing guests on board at the bucket or the deep blue as a solution :D
 
We have a Thetford 165 on the Centaur and use the blue fluid and the pink flush stuff. There is a propper elsan disposal unit at the Wardens on Windermere but I have been known to use any public loo. The sailing club got a bit brassed off the one time I had to take it in there to empty so I didn't do that again. I have made a shelf with a lip round it to make a more secure base for the loo, it does tend to fall off though if we are having too much fun.

There is a smaller porta potty on the Harrier. It's in the forepeak and fairly private, or as private as you can get on a 20' boat. To sit on the throne you need to have the fore hatch open and stick your head out, or bend double.

Liquids bought @ GO-Outdoors, there are a few about round here but I don't know if they are UK wide.:

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/camping/toilets-and-chemicals
 
I'm just about (so that prob means a year away) to rip out my sea toilet and replace with a porta unit. Tired of sea creatures crawling their way up hull fittings and pump needing work all the time - it doesn't get used enough to keep clear. And two less through hull holes!

There are some really good units with canisters nowadays - very cheap too.

As for securing, that's an interesting one. I was thinking of heavy duty Velcro. It's really come on brilliantly and even if heeling hard, I think it will resist the forces.

I remember the day in 2006 when trying to fix the heads resulted in an explosion from built up pressure - it wasn't nice.

But a bucket will always be the cheapest option,
 
But a bucket will always be the cheapest option,
Click to expand...
And you can get some nice collapsible buckets that don't take up much space when stowed.

Or of course there is always salty John's Canvas bucket but that's, perhaps, not the cheapest option

;)
 
Some info from Thetford via a 3rd party

Apparently, both Aqua Kem Blue and Aqua Kem Green are formaldehyde free in the UK

Green always has been, Blue changed formulation in 2003!

Green is preferable for sceptic tanks although Blue should not affect sceptic tanks if used in the correct quantities - the underlying suggestion being that an excess of Blue could be detrimental

Both Green and Blue are 100% bio-degradable although they would not comment on their disposal at sea

Green works by biological action, Blue is still a chemical process although they are not forthcoming about what chemical(s) replaced formaldehyde

Pretty sure the stuff we're using on Brigantia was bought more recently than 2003 so if the above is kosher (and I see no reason to suspect otherwise) it's formaldehyde free yet every bit as effective as it ever was

HTH
 
Sadly I'm also in the market for a new SWMBO so I think the bucket, and especially the collapsible bucket, will have to stay off the shortlist :D
 
TonyBuckley said:
As for securing, that's an interesting one. I was thinking of heavy duty Velcro. It's really come on brilliantly and even if heeling hard, I think it will resist the forces.
Click to expand...

I have the bottom half of a portapotti 365 held down by rubber furniture webbing, the top clips onto the bottom, the webbing fits between the two halves and doesn't absorb. its stretchy enough to pull the webbing fwd over the bottom to release it.

I had to enlarge the floor pan from the seatoilet base to accommodate it, I did that with a large white kitchen chopping board, also unabsorbent, from IKEA, bolted down to the seatoilet base and added locating strips to help the elastic webbing hold it in place.
It is such a "relief" be able to use it in marinas at will.

I generally empty it into a public toilet.

It works well for me, I wouldn't go back to a sea toilet.
 
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