4s Yamaha, its nonsense..Old Evinrude any good?

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mattnj

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I am wishing that i hadnt sold my Mariner 3.3 2 stroke, i decided earlier this year to "upgrade" to a yamaha 4hp 4 stroke and its a nightmare, other that the fact thats i weights 22kg/13kg, it is also harder to start (3-4 pulls vs 1), it leaks oil when i lay it flat sometimes in the car, and it puffs a load of smoke out the back for the first minute when starting having been on its side for a few hours....so enough moaning, the question is, does anyone have an older Evinrude 4hp 2 stroke, they seem to do have made a 2 cylinder 2 stroke, 4hp at 13kg, that are apparantly super smooth, and i am thinking i will look for an old one...or is that a bad idea, any experiances?

The next choice is back to the Mariner, but i do enjoy the extra HP, it gets the tender on the plane, which is much fun!
 
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I think an old outboard of any make could have problems and be difficult to work on

The very old 4 hp Johnson/Evinrudes, 1970s sort of age, were reckoned to be the best small outboards of any.

Most spares still available for them, certainly back through the 80s and 70's and beyond.

Good forum for help too on iboats.
 
You can only lay the thing on one side (there should be some hint to which one in the manual). If you lay on the wrong side it will leak oil and give you all the other mentioned problems.
 
jfkal said:
You can only lay the thing on one side (there should be some hint to which one in the manual). If you lay on the wrong side it will leak oil and give you all the other mentioned problems.
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the manual says put down on the handle side, so thats the only side i have ever tried, and it still leaks sometimes, but then again it does roll around a bit when on the handle. Its just a pain that i dont need, i thought when i bought it that the extra weight and needing to put it on one side was no big deal, but have found the reality to be a right pain!

Think i will give an old evinrude a try for a season, a 13kg 2 stroke 4hp twin sounds like the right idea to me...if i find one, i will let you know what its like in the real world compared to the yam.
 
Re the 4 hp Johnnyrudes.
Bear in mind that, at least from the 1980's IIRC, there were several versions of but in particular there were ones with just a clutch and 360 degree steering but no reverse gear, typically around 15.5 kg for a standard shaft model and an integral fuel tank, and there were "deluxe" versions which had reverse gear, a full cowing and a similar if not the same leg and gearbox as larger (5, 6 & 8 hp ) engines and weighed in at 23.4 kg for a standard shaft and integral tank or 22.7 kg with a remote tank.

If you find a second hand Johnson/Evinrude that you fancy get its model number then we can check out all its details and confirm the age etc.
Model number should be on the port side of the transom bracket and in the case of Evinrudes, but maybe not Johnsons, on a dic on the power head like this

68742_431954166383_540081383_5180122_5874700_n.jpg
 
I have a 2 pot 2 stroke 4hp Evinrude (the one with gears)
It has been bashed on a bridge and now has a home made lid.
It has been to the bottom (when running).
It has been overheated by a weed-blocked water inlet to the point of stopping in a ball of steam.
It has had 10 years of the kids (and the big kids) thrashing and abusing it.
It starts first or second pull every time and even the kids can carry it.

Would I change it? No chance!
 
VicS said:
Re the 4 hp Johnnyrudes.
Bear in mind that, at least from the 1980's IIRC, there were several versions of but in particular there were ones with just a clutch and 360 degree steering but no reverse gear, typically around 15.5 kg for a standard shaft model and an integral fuel tank, and there were "deluxe" versions which had reverse gear, a full cowing and a similar if not the same leg and gearbox as larger (5, 6 & 8 hp ) engines and weighed in at 23.4 kg for a standard shaft and integral tank or 22.7 kg with a remote tank.

If you find a second hand Johnson/Evinrude that you fancy get its model number then we can check out all its details and confirm the age etc.
Model number should be on the port side of the transom bracket and in the case of Evinrudes, but maybe not Johnsons, on a dic on the power head like this

68742_431954166383_540081383_5180122_5874700_n.jpg
Click to expand...


not this exact one (too expensive for me) but this is the type i was after, assuming his "14kg" is accurate:-

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Evinrude-4hp-standard-shaft-2-stroke-outboard-engine-/130440540810?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_Boat_Engines_EngineParts_SM&hash=item1e5edcb28a
 
He does not give the age and i am not sufficiently au fait with the changes in livery to make a guess

Would not like to comment on the price Didn't sell so too high

Model number will always give the age !

The weight I quoted are from a 1984 brochure.

This one might be sort outable. Perhaps worth a last minute bid but ask about the age and model number.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EVINRUDE-4HP-...ps=63&clkid=5042736319282691872#ht_700wt_1139
 
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4 hp Johnson A*

We use a 4 hp Johnson 2 stroke twin long shaft as a motor for the dink and as a back up for our heavy weight 24 foot lift keeler.

It is as sweet as a nut, much better and smoother than a thumping single cylinder 4s. Loads of grunt.

Easy to start. If one cylinder/spark fails the other inevitibly fires up and helps clear the other.

It is light enough for SWBO to lift over guard rail when I pass it up from the dink.

Lives happily in a cockpit locker when we are out of harbour.

Can be run on its internal tank or plugged into an external.

Has a clutch but no reverse. Not a problem just spin motor around.

Run it dry every time it goes home in car boot or out in a locker.

Never had any fuel spillage and no need to worry about right side up etc.

Have seen quite a few come up on Fleabay and usually reasonably priced.

Ours will probably get cut down to a short shaft this winter as we dont really need a long shaft on dink or in well.. It should then be possible to use it (with care) on our round tail flubber.

If it had a charging circuit it would be a perfect alternative to the 6hp Tohatsu that we use as our main power unit.

I hate those noisy new air cooled heavy weight 4 strokes. They are as bad as an oily old Seagull.
 
TSB240 said:
I hate those noisy new air cooled heavy weight 4 strokes. They are as bad as an oily old Seagull.
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The worlds gone mad, who's idea was this, lets ban 2 stoke outboards on emmisions grounds, but strimmers, chainsaws, leaf blowers etc are fine, what a load of tosh, i cant wait until we get the news "the world is cooling down again, sorry global warming was a load of old nonsense" and we can all go back to normal...although it will be too late by then to go back :-)
 
totaly agree .

Did you know that registerred commercial fisherman can still legally purchase/import a 2 stroke engine?

It is a little known loophole that allows potentially the highest potential polluter to carry on using old 2 stroke technology..

Personally I love 2 bangers.

Tuning 2 strokes so easy,double the rpm and you get twice the power after you have opened up the cylinder porting added a magneto ignition and a 30mm slide carb

We transformed a Honda H100 commuter bike engine into homemade kart engine.

We eventually managed to get 24 bhp out of 110ccs doing 19,000 rpm.:eek:

Standard Honda Pistons lasted a maximum of 15 minutes racing before skirt cracked:mad:and engine exploded.
Found alternative that would reliably last a season without a rebuild running about 15k max.

Standard bike spec about 9hp i seem to remeber!

Now I still have one in the shed. Fancy fitting it to a leg Matt? Could be a whole new project for you? Hit the throttle and pull a wheelie in your flubber?

Castrol racing M best perfume in the world to a petrol head.
 
I have an Anderson 22, the idea is as soon as one is in clear water the engine ( 5hp about optimum, after 32 years trying that & 4hp ) - is removed from the well and laid flat in the locker, a fairing plug goes into the well.

People are often asking me now which 4-stroke to use, my simple answer is ' none of them, find a good Mariner / Yamaha 5hp 2 stroke ' !

My Mariner 5 is a brilliant engine, and no reason to consider it 'old' or difficult, spares are no problem though I can't remember the last time I needed any.

I am careful about winter servicing though; with all outboards I've found running in fresh water at beginning and end of season is not sufficient, at least every 3 years or so the head should be removed, salt builds up amazingly.

The weight of 4-strokes makes lifting & stowing them difficult, and even worse they won't stow flat without the risk of lubrication oil filling the combustion chamber.

The last time I checked the only make which would officially say such stowage is OK is Yamaha, but check which model.
 
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I've had , and just sold, an Evinrude 4hp 2 stroke twin. Didn't like it. Twins have twice as many power strokes as singles so it sounds like they are revving their nuts off. They are also smelly so on a calm day cruising with the 2 stroke on the stern the fumes get drawn back into the cockpit. Even reducing the mix to 60:1 didn't help with that.
I have a Mariner 4hp 4 stroke now and it's grand. Single cylinder and half as many power strokes per revs as 2 strokes so very realxed and quiet with plenty of torque.
I had a Yamaha 4 hp 4 stroke before and that was also an excellent motor. I never had and problem with oil leaking. You just have to stow it properly.
Usually a 4 stroke needs two pulls, I have found. But the difference is that the pulls should be long and steady, not short and sharp like 2 strokes starting.
They always start, especially when hot when a short pull is all they need.
2 strokes are sometimes very good and sometimes a right pain.
I find I can rely on a 4 stroke, but am never totally confident with a 2 stroke.

I do have a very old 3.5hp Tohatsu 2 stroke though, which is a cracking little engine. As a spare.
 
4 hp Johnson

I have a 2 stroke Johnson 4 of 1984. When new, I (as a Seagull owner) could not bear to mix only 2% of oil in the fuel and always used 4% -"a little more oil can't do harm".
As a result the motor did not run properly and needed some choke to survive. After some time somebody warned me, I started using 2% mix, as stated by the maker, and since I am happy with it.
Vics, I did not know the existence of a Forward/Neutral/Reverse model. I would very much fancy to have one as a main engine on my Drascombe Dabber. Notwithstanding the changes I made to the controls (see PBO May and August 2010), maneuvering is not straightforward with the motor in a well. Where could I find notices about this model?

Sandro
 
Lakesailor said:
I've had , and just sold, an Evinrude 4hp 2 stroke twin. Didn't like it. Twins have twice as many power strokes as singles so it sounds like they are revving their nuts off. They are also smelly so on a calm day cruising with the 2 stroke on the stern the fumes get drawn back into the cockpit. Even reducing the mix to 60:1 didn't help with that.
I have a Mariner 4hp 4 stroke now and it's grand. Single cylinder and half as many power strokes per revs as 2 strokes so very realxed and quiet with plenty of torque.
I had a Yamaha 4 hp 4 stroke before and that was also an excellent motor. I never had and problem with oil leaking. You just have to stow it properly.
Usually a 4 stroke needs two pulls, I have found. But the difference is that the pulls should be long and steady, not short and sharp like 2 strokes starting.
They always start, especially when hot when a short pull is all they need.
2 strokes are sometimes very good and sometimes a right pain.
I find I can rely on a 4 stroke, but am never totally confident with a 2 stroke.

I do have a very old 3.5hp Tohatsu 2 stroke though, which is a cracking little engine. As a spare.
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I'm glad you said that Lakey, I was begining to think that the two [edit make that 3 including the 115 hp on the back of my fishing boat] 4 strokes I have weren't as good as I thought. Like you I find that they are both reliable and easy to use and none of this messing about with oil in the petrol.

It won't take long before someone joins this thread raving on about the joys of their 50 year old mudweight, err I mean Seagull :)
 
Sandro said:
I have a 2 stroke Johnson 4 of 1984. When new, I (as a Seagull owner) could not bear to mix only 2% of oil in the fuel and always used 4% -"a little more oil can't do harm".
As a result the motor did not run properly and needed some choke to survive. After some time somebody warned me, I started using 2% mix, as stated by the maker, and since I am happy with it.
Vics, I did not know the existence of a Forward/Neutral/Reverse model. I would very much fancy to have one as a main engine on my Drascombe Dabber. Notwithstanding the changes I made to the controls (see PBO May and August 2010), maneuvering is not straightforward with the motor in a well. Where could I find notices about this model?

Sandro
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Firstly I am surprised you had trouble with a 4% fuel mix..... that would have been specified for the new engine break-in period. Using a 2 stroke outboard oil to a TC-W spec?.

The deluxe 4 hp models with FNR gears were made from 1984 to 1997 as far as I can see. Remote or integral tanks and standard or long shafts available as options throughout. Evinrudes and Johnsons alike
They had the same gear box as 5, 6 and 8Hp models and a similar mid-section and cowling.
I sometimes see references to "sail" versions but there is no such designated model in the models numbers list. Presumably long shaft models fitted with a high thrust prop and battery charging kit.

From a 1984 brochure

2 & 4 HP MODELS

scan0056.jpg



5, 6 & 8 HP MODELS

scan0010-1.jpg



YACHTWIN (SAIL) MODELS

scan0013.jpg



TWIN EVINRUDES WITH LONG LEGS

TwinEvinrudes.jpg



A BIG OL' JOHNSON




!
 
Keep your eyes out

Earlier this year I managed to acquire a 1986 4.5 hp Johnson with external tank for £125. I got it as a result of a passing conversation with a chap who was alongside me at our club as he was working on it. Long story short – he was getting rid of it as he couldn’t get it to idle or start easily. I had a quick look over and took it for a test run on my and once I adjusted the mix correctly and idle adjustment it runs like a treat.

So what’s the message of my tail? Keep your eyes out as you never know when a good outboard will come up. Have you tried asking around your club as I have found that there is a steady turn over of older engines as people upgrade for some strange reason.

I would really like someone to explain how you reduce your ‘carbon footprint’ by buying a new imported engine rather than continuing to use a serviceable old engine….
 
Johnson 4hp

Thank you very much VicS.
As I can see from the pictures, I understand that I could not fit a 4 Plus to my boat: the mid section is too thick and would prevent tilting the motor out of the water, supposing that the large cowling would allow to ship the motor at all. It looks like the designer of the Dabber had Seagull 40Plus and Johnson/Evinrude 4 in mind for this boat. They fit in so snugly (is this the correct english word?).

About oil percentage in fuel, yes I always used outboard - i. e. water cooled - 2 stroke oil.
Many years have drifted away since that time, my memory is rusting, so there could be some other unseen reason for the inconvenience. The motor started well but after warming up a little it tended to decrease the rpm and to die off. Partially choking the air intake allowed to limp home.

By the way, also by what I read in this forum, I think that 2 stroke outboards seem more practical and, environmentally speaking, I am further convinced that running an existing 2s otboard does much less harm than building a new one.

Good sailing to everybody

Sandro
 
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