MacGregor 26X seaworthy?

[William_H]

Hull speed

Calm down. It's not your integrity but your arithmetic that's at issue. A 26 ft displacement boat won't sail through the water at eight knots. The formula (from Hiscock) for a good hull shape is sq rt of waterline x 1.4. Let's allow the MacG has a well designed underwater shape and say a 22 ft waterline. That gives 5.55 knots. QUOTE

The hull speed as given by Hiscock and others as 1.4 times sqare root of waterline length in feet is a fair formular. However it was never meant as a definitive max speed. It in fact gives a point on a steeply rising graph of driving force versus speed. The point (1.4) decided by Hiscock was like a "thats about it" point for his kind of boat. ie heavy with limited sail area. Confining our discussion to normal sailing boat displacement hulls I think his formular has become out dated in terms of absolute max speed. Modern hull shapes coupled with large sail areas mean that even without "planing" the speed can be pushed well beyond Hiscocks 1.4 limit.
My own 21ft trailer sailer can achieve 9 knots with plenty of breeze on the quarter and small spinnacker up. I keep hoping for the magic 10 knots. This always on GPS with no tidal influence. I didn't say easily achieve because it is a bit hairy at that speed and degree of overpowering. But it happens at least several times per season.

Of course a McGreggor will achieve 8 knots with a favourable wind direction. In my one sail on a Mcgreggor it would not sail to windward in a stiff breeze. It is a motor boat with some sail pretentions.
As a motor boat I would regard it as quite seaworthy. More so for having the sailing ability.
My friend who owned one (and sold it) did have trouble with the steering which seized up with corrosion.
I think if I owned one I would convert to tiller steering for the rudders as that little wheel is contributory to it not sailing well to windward. olewill

 

[bastonjock]

I for one would think twice but as previous posting suggest do you trust him.
The only thing in its favour is that it has a 60hp engine giving some 20knt+.
If a blow did start to grow, drop the sails and dump the ballast and power to a safe port. The time to the safe haven is very short with that sort of speed.

Go for it, you only life twice!!

Rob

Bad advice rob!

You never dump the Ballast on a Mac when you are in a blow.The only time that there has been capsises with a mac is when there has been no ballast in,and they do pop back up if you get a knock down.

I have owned a MacGregor 26X for 2 years,it is capable of doing the Scillys and back,just check out the PBO write up on one called "Souwester Sam" the owner and his familly took the boat to the scillys and back.

I have taken mine past the recommended limits of its design,Force 7,its says force 6 on the docs but i went out and got caught,the boat handles best in conditions like this with the engine and a little few rolls of Jib out.

The boat can handle coastal conditions quite easily,the wave height can be a problem after they get to about 6-8ft in a chop,it tends to beat the boat to a standstill,but as you have 50hp on the back,it just gets uncomfortable.

All boat designs are a compromise,the mac is a light boat,it can do stuff that keel boats cannot and cannot do stuff that keel boats can

Its a jack of all trades,its neither sailing boat or power boat,its a powersailor

People take these boats on an anuall jolly going from Florida over to the bahamas,check out the website for the conch cruisers.

A director of North Sails uses a Mac to test out new sail designs

If you ever get tired of your bit of coast in a mac,you can put it on the trailer and go somewhere else

They are a very good boat for getting into sailing,they forgive mistakes,you dont rip your Keel off,unlike that 4 week old J Boat that recently hit a sand bank.

 

[bastonjock]

How many rig failures is "very few"? I think we should be told!

You had seen the wind go from F2/3 to F6/8 in a day: Your nautical intuition was telling you that the rig was marginal in F6+ in Carrick Roads and the salesman was telling you the yacht was classified UP TO F6!

Why am I not re-assured?

Thats because you did not have a 50hp big foot yamaha on the back that can get you home BEFORE it gets to F8,the wind strenght is not a problem,the wave height is.I can get 18knots out of my mac in a flat sea,in a lumpy sea my maximimum speed is goverend by the height and frequency of the waves

 

[bastonjock]

8 knots sailing in a 26 ft boat? You had me convinced up until then.

Ive had 9 knots SOG out of mine,there are guys in the states who have claimed more with the spinny up.

 

[Alfie168]

Do they come with a periscope as standard...

Tim

 

[Marsupial]

My friend asked me to crew on a trip to the Scilly Isles in his Macgregor speedboat yacht, you know, the one with a 60hp engine on the back and some sticks to put sails up with, centre plate, water ballast and all that.

I am a bit cautious of putting to sea in something rather unusual. Can this boat cope in a blow and a swell? Any experience you have much appreciated, or have you seen any reviews?

Many thanks

Steve

This is what its designed to do:

C. INSHORE: Designed for voyages in
coastal waters, large bays, estuaries, lakes
and rivers where conditions up to, and
including, wind force 6 and significant wave
heights up to, and including, 2 m may be
experienced.

so you pays your money and makes your choice! I've seen the conditions described above in a harbour!

 

[Sans Bateau]

"My friend asked me to crew on a trip to the Scilly Isles in his Macgregor speedboat yacht, you know, the one with a 60hp engine on the back and some sticks to put sails up with, centre plate, water ballast and all that.

I am a bit cautious of putting to sea in something rather unusual. Can this boat cope in a blow and a swell? Any experience you have much appreciated, or have you seen any reviews?

Many thanks

Steve"


We havent had a McGreggor troll for some time have we?

 

[Krusty]

Having read all this, and other items, I conclude that if everything goes as the designer intended, and you read the label on the tin, and don't break the rules, It's fine:

But run into a fog patch or or an error of pilotage, with sharp little hard bits around (like rocks) and puncture a ballast tank, you are upsy-down in no time.

A bit like the proverbial tight-rope really. If all goes well, you live.

 

[Alfie168]

"My friend asked me to crew on a trip to the Scilly Isles in his Macgregor speedboat yacht, you know, the one with a 60hp engine on the back and some sticks to put sails up with, centre plate, water ballast and all that.

I am a bit cautious of putting to sea in something rather unusual. Can this boat cope in a blow and a swell? Any experience you have much appreciated, or have you seen any reviews?

Many thanks

Steve"


We havent had a McGreggor troll for some time have we?

Well I did wonder. My tongue was so far in my cheek I've lost it temporarily. If McGregors sank and drowned people like the Bez did we'd have heard about it by now. We havn't, they don't. If you don't like the boat for other reasons then fine, but thousands of people sail/motor them to to all sorts of places perfectly happily.

The one overload that ended up with a drowning is not statistically significant given the circumstances. The two or three capsizes were largely due to being non ballasted and therefore disobeying operating instructions...but they didn't sink.

They are not my sort of boat, but I'm mystified at the vitriol from some, which is largely bunkum. Actually I'm beginning to soften towards buying one...

I was shocked to find that the Bez was not in fact banned for its lack of stability when awash, it was simply reclassified, but hopefully it will never reappear here. Now that IS a boat I would not sail in.

Tim

 

[webcraft]

Having read all this, and other items, I conclude that if everything goes as the designer intended, and you read the label on the tin, and don't break the rules, It's fine:

But run into a fog patch or or an error of pilotage, with sharp little hard bits around (like rocks) and puncture a ballast tank, you are upsy-down in no time.

A bit like the proverbial tight-rope really. If all goes well, you live.

Why should a hole in the hull of a Macgregor be any more or less serious than a hole in the hull of your boat or my boat? In fact it would probably be less serious, as the Macgregor is technically unsinkable. And why should a Macgregor be more likely to hit a rock?

I agree that for offshore work they are the tool of the devil, but your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense - unless it is Macgregor skippers you are criticising rather than the boat.

To get back to the OP, I would go to the Scillies on this boat with a good 24 hour forecast and no potential surprises lurking at the edge of the synoptic chart - that is, assuming all the standard safety equipment for this type of passage was on board. As someone else said previously though, I couldn't guarantee I would be available for the return passage at the time of the skipper's choosing. You could go anywhere in the British Isles in a boat like this and have a great trip if you were prepared to wait on weather long enough, but if you set sail regardless to meet deadlines you might end up rescued or dead.

- W

 

[Krusty]

Why should a hole in the hull of a Macgregor be any more or less serious than a hole in the hull of your boat or my boat? ....]

Because a hole in a Macgregor's ballast tank can only be accessed from the outside!

I have seriously considered down-sizing to a trailersailer, and having seen a Macgregor, I researched its design and construction.
Having experienced and retained vivid memories of below-waterline holes in a keelboat, a multihull and a small motor-vessel, and sweated blood to salvage them, successfully from the inside, I am particular conscious of likely consequences for a Macgregor.
(I might add that I do have some understanding of both theory and practice of the physical sciences and have designed, built, raced and cruised a boat of my own. In its day, it was far enough "out in front'' to have been featured in Multihull Intenational)

[/QUOTE]
I agree that for offshore work they are the tool of the devil,......][/QUOTE]
On that we are in accord!

[/QUOTE]
......but your post doesn't make a whole lot of sense -....[/QUOTE]
I hope it does now.

 

[webcraft]

.
Yes, your post makes more sense now. I presume a holed ballast tank could end up half full with loads of nasty free surface effect.

- W

 

[Alfie168]

Now lets consider a hole in a Macgegor Ballast Tank made from the outside into the tank. Hell..it might fill with water (doh..its already full). Its unlikely you will lose whats in there already. OK so if you then sail it an angle that the hole is exposed, it will drain, but it will have to be a hell of a hole to drain quickly. With the double skin you do in fact have a safety factor built in keeping the main hull watertight

If the hole comes through both skins, then the boat takes on water and settles unless the flow is stemmed, but as we know, the boat does not sink. It will float at Gunwhale level. Thats what Macgregors do.

Aside from which, has anyone ever heard of it happen? I doubt it personally

Now compare with what happens to most yachts that get holed..oh yes...glug glug glug..they sink, and pretty fast too unless you are mighty quick and tooled up to stem it.

My boat happens to be water ballasted as are hundreds of other Dehler 22s and 25s. I can't say that I have ever heard of such an issue, and they've been around over 25 years now. I'm sure a few must have been holed in/around the ballast tank at some stage, but the issue of stability has never been an issue. Its a non issue as far as I'm aware.

As some of us keep saying. If there were safety issues with McGregors the lawyers would have got there faster than Usain Bolt. They havn't, so go figure it out for yourself.


Tim

 

[planteater]

Worrying about how boats respond to holes below the water line seems a little over the top to me. It's likely to be bad news in any vessel depending on huge range of factors. It's a bit like setting them on fire and comparing how inflammable they are.

 

[Krusty]

Alfie, and Planteater;

Having done my research re a trailer-sailer for my own use, I'm really not disposed to argue the toss; you are fully entitled to hold whatever opinions you chose and to make your own judgments: as we all must.
I simply refer you to the bottom line of all my posts, which is a quotation from a highly respected sage and philosopher with whom I was once priviledged to discuss the concept of 'Risk'.

 

[Shearwater]

American originating products.... !

I have a Jeep Cherokee. It has cost me £2000 in non-scheduled maintenance in 2 yrs.
I have an Oregon Scientific weather station. The anenometer blew off in a 70 mph gust, the outside temperature sensor now shows + 40 degs C although it is snowing.
I had a US Hunter Marine 23.5 trailer sailer - the keel pivot pin started to wear excessively - and it would have been non-repairable; I sold it (to a Spaniard!)

I shall never ever ever buy anything American again.....Uncle Sam can boil his head.

IHopefully this isn't contentious; but for Gawd's sake think before you part with any money !!

 

[GART]

Yes the Mac is seaworthy within its design perimeters, I have owned various conventional trailer sailors for the last 30 years, I bought a Macgregor last year, and I am very happy with it. It sails better, it motors better, and Launching & recovery are easier, it has more spacious interior accommodation, I have not been out in bad weather force 5/6 is the most I have been out in and she sailed beautifully. I do not want to be out in anything stronger, and it is comforting to know if the weather was to deteriorate I can get to a safe haven quickly. And if the worst was to happen it is self righting and the built in buoyancy would keep her afloat.
As has already been said more than once, the only people who do not like them have not tried them or do not understand the concept of what they are about. If somebody wants a 26’ boat to cross oceans or go out in a gale do not buy a Macgregor.

 

[Alfie168]

Alfie, and Planteater;

Having done my research re a trailer-sailer for my own use, I'm really not disposed to argue the toss; you are fully entitled to hold whatever opinions you chose and to make your own judgments: as we all must.
I simply refer you to the bottom line of all my posts, which is a quotation from a highly respected sage and philosopher with whom I was once priviledged to discuss the concept of 'Risk'.

Nobody is asking you to buy one. But muddying the waters with talk of 'research' when The evidence of thousands of owners worldwide not experiencing the scenario that your research appears to suggest to you, suggest to me that the value of your research is strictly limited.

I'm not talking opinion here, these are the facts. Like it or lump it McGregors have a perfectly respectable safety record over quite a few years..period. Thats evidence that speaks for itself. Until someone produces evidence to the contrary I take most of the anti McGregor comments with a large pinch of salt.
The ones I do accept are that they are ugly, and don't sail upwind all that well. Fortunately my Dehler is both pretty and goes upwind like a demon..water ballast included, so I won't be buying a McGregor either.

Tim

 

[bastonjock]

Piotaskipper

If you look on the macgregor website you will find a video where they have 6 guys on the roof of the mac,they then drill several holes in the hull and the boat still floats.

If you do not like a macgregor then as you state that is your opinion,those of us who own them ,all 6000 of us love our boats.

Would i sail accross the north sea in mine......No,do i enjoy a bit of coastal hopping in it .....yes i do.

There has been a few macs that i know of that have done the run to the Scillys,there was no loss of life,and if you read Jerremy Coles account on his trip in Souwester Sam he and his familly had a most enjoyable trip.

There have been many mac owners who have made the run from Florida to the Bahamas,the distance i belive is around 60 miles,they wait for a weather window and go
no one has had an accident or ran into weather trouble,others have cruised the islands for a few months after arriving.

 

[dvideohd]

Horses for Courses.....

heehee... Let's see...

The Jeep Cherokee is now Italian... the Oregon Scientific was made in China.. The Hunter 23.5 - **is** a US boat... (as are a lot more Hunters....) and Uncle Sam has been doing a good job on Self Head Boiling for a good while....

But I see your point..

FWIW... I have a Hunter 37C in the back yard.. it's a Katrina boat... it was on the hard - but that don't bother a Class 5 surge and Class 3 hurricane.. It rolled off the stands - over and over.... Masts and stanchions snapped.... hull deck separations.... winches ripped off the hull.. but considering all the incredible weather - the boat is repairable... it will just take a while.. So I sail in the Mac26D now, till done with work.... There can be a compromise, you know...

"I shall never ever ever buy anything American again.....Uncle Sam can boil his head." -- I am somewhat concerned that we all get an ever decreasing opportunity to buy UK and/or US stuff ever year.... I am quite partial to UK gear when I can get it...

-jerry

"I Hopefully this isn't contentious; but for Gawd's sake think before you part with any money !! "

--it really is horses for courses... In Galveston, TX - when Hurricane Ike rolled in - boats were washed up on the causeway without regard as to who made them... A trailer boat then was the thing to have...